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Posted by: Jknight611 Jan 8 2018, 03:27 AM

My truck is painfully close or over the truck’s gross weight limit. It handles fine and in 30,000 miles hasn’t shown any ill effects from overloading. BUT, in the event of a traffic accident am I opening myself up to a liability nightmare? I couldn’t imagine in litigation being overweight would play out very well!
Anybody have any experience with this issue? I am torn about replacing my current truck with a 1 ton.

Posted by: RV_Tech Jan 8 2018, 04:17 AM

This is an interesting question and one which I am sure will bring many responses. In a nutshell, although most folks quickly point out when it come to weight that you are not likely to be stopped while simply moving about by the police or highway patrol, they seldom address the potential for a civil suit in the event you are involved in an accident.

When it comes to civil suits, things can get muddy very quickly and anything that can be used against you can and probably will (provided someone has had the wherewithal to gather information at the time of the accident). Of course a multitude of factors can impact the outcome of a civil suit, but it is hard to ignore the fact that running overweight will benefit no one who finds themselves needing to appear the picture of responsible ownership. So is it a slam dunk for the other side? Probably not, but it sure could make a bad situation worse. Personally I would raise the issue with an attorney in a heartbeat.

Now the next issue is how probable is it that the issue of weight will arise and the answer to that is "not very". Jump over to the website for the National Highway Traffic Safety Institute and see if you can find statistics for accidents involving weight. The reality is statistically accidents involving RVs of all persuasions are not common and are actually pretty uncommon. In the end, you might be saved by the simple fact that you are not likely to be involved in an accident with your RV, but if you are, running overweight is unlikely to weigh in your favor (pun intended).

Posted by: emcvay Jan 10 2018, 05:34 PM

Was at an RV lot and saw a Dodge 3500 SRW (fairly new) deliver an Arctic Fox 1140 (or 1150)....only mod he had was airbags and claimed it drove very well. I saw he had Toyo's which I think have a higher weight cap.

Point? He had to be WAY over as the 1140/50 showed 3895 dry weight no options on the back.

He was also pulling about a 30 foot trailer.

Posted by: mbrink Jan 10 2018, 07:29 PM

It is very easy to get over weight with any truck/TC combo. Likely not an issue until some event happens. I had a truck/camper combo for 17 years that worked great, never an issue. It was legally overweight from day one. I then bought a new (used) camper that was even heavier, and had a higher CG.

Drove that combo without issue for 2 years, but really had to be defensive on managing speed. Lucky never had an issue, but had to be on my toes.

I have since sold the truck and bought a 2018 Dodge SW. Things have come a long ways in 17 years. This truck is a 3500 vs a 250. I am now close, but still over, GVW. With new trannie and auto exhaust brakes, it is so much more manageable. Truck also has much less sway, given 1 ton vs 3/4 ton, plus fact truck and springs are new.

I now comfortably and I feel safely carry my TC. I also tow a 7,000 pound trailer at times which actually helps braking given the dual axle brakes. My only concern now are the tires on the single rear axle of the truck. I operate within the rating of the tires, but still have a lot of weight on single tires. Never have had a tire blow while towing, but feel that is the weak link. Plenty of power, plenty of braking, at/near GVW, but still relying on a single tire. Fortunately tires these days are very good.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Jan 10 2018, 09:14 PM

This is my take on it...

You are golden until some little old lady J walks in front of you and you put your foot through the firewall but yo cannot stop in time because the weight of your unit won't allow it, IOW, your brakes are overloaded to the point it's not going to stop in time so you cream the little old lady and guess what..

You get sued and loose everything,

Or, you are in a situation where you need to perform an emergency evasive manuver and you cannot because your outfit is too heavy, or top heavy to allow it so you crash

Either scenario put's you at fault and wide open to a civil suit.

Why I went from a hardside to a pop up. It's lighter. I can actually slide all 4 wheels on the truck on dry pavement with the camper in the bed. Can you? Have you ever tried?

You can run anything down the road but in an emergency / panic scenario you may not be in control anymore.

Myself, I prefer to err on the side of not being overloaded. Easier to control and easier on components too.

You never know when that 'emergency' situation will arise. Better to be prepared than getting caught with your drawers down.

I sure as heck don't want to cream a little old lady or rear end someone because I could not stop in time, because I didn't have enough braking power. In any state, that is 'assured clear distance' and puts you immediately at fault whether the other party contributed to the scenario or not.

I don't ever want to go there. Attorneys love that stuff, it keeps them in fancy cars and lines the client's pockets with settlements.

Posted by: RV_Tech Jan 11 2018, 02:57 AM

Here is what bothers me most about the weight issue, regardless of what side of the fence you fall on. The RV industry continues to serve up BS to buyers by continuing to act as though it requires a message from on high to post accurate camper weights. There is no reason on earth every RV can not leave the dealership with a statement of accurate weight just as it sits with full tanks, batteries in place, etc. This liability disclaimer in all the brochures or a list of option weights is crap and manufacturers and dealers know it.The dealer should put it on the sales slip at the time of sale and have the customer sign off on it. They don't piece meal the weight and shrug shoulders as though it it the buyer's responsibility. After that, if an owners wants to modify and take responsibility so be it.

The second thing that drives me nuts is folks discussing weights with no real world knowledge of what their rig weighs fully loaded. Fully loaded is ready to go down the road the way you travel. My F350 had Fab Fours bumpers front and rear. They are huge and they are heavy. I have a Yamaha 2,000 genset hanging on the rear bumper on a platform, I have a cooler full of ice behind the seat, the gas tanks, both gasoline and propane are full, you get the idea. Running that across a CAT scale, with our Hallmark Ute on board, my truck scales out right at total gross weight rating for the truck. That is over 3,000 pounds I have loaded onto our truck.

I know I am ranting, but I wish when RV owners were discussing weights, there came a point in time when a CAT scale slip magically appeared to anchor the discussion in reality because from where I sit, it seems like that is a rarity.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Jan 11 2018, 08:08 PM

if most owners actually knew what they weighed ready to roll, they'd probably stay home...

What always bothers me isn't the overweight issue but the impact on components.

I realize that typically, components will withstand a substantial margin of over extension but that also shortens component life.

Why I refer to a loaded up TC with slides and on board generator and all the bells and whistles as a barge. A barge on wheels.

TC's are the only guilty RV. You have to wonder how many pull behinds are overloaded as well. At least with a pull behind, you do have another set of brakes or multiple sets even if they are stone age drum brakes.

People want to take everything with them to go camping, IOW, take the house along. Problem is, all that stuff weighs something.

My wife and I have learned over the years to be minimalists. We just take what we need and no more (and we leave the cats at home too)..lol

Posted by: RV_Tech Jan 11 2018, 09:56 PM

Component wear for sure.

Posted by: Jknight611 Jan 13 2018, 05:44 AM

Thanks guys, as I mentioned, my truck doesn’t seem to be any worse for the overgross weight, my primary concern is a huge lawsuit because of a accident and in the discovery phase of the investigation being found to be overweight.
Maybe I am pandering for a new 1 ton too......

Posted by: campimgcrazy Jan 14 2018, 04:35 AM

Me to. The only thing stopping me is that monthly payment.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Jan 14 2018, 04:42 PM

I'm allergic to payments. If I want something I save up the money and pay cash. Cannot see paying some finance company for use of their money.

Posted by: JADE RACING Jan 16 2018, 11:11 AM

The Cat scale ticket tells the story. Here is what "should" be happening at RV dealerships, is a set of moveable scales be used with the paper print out attached to the sales receipt of each unit as the customer picks up their new unit .It is a no brainer that this format would help all . When we had our last 5th wheel we were at rallies where a dealer actually brought his scales with him and we did a safety seminar which really opened many owner's eyes. The liability issue also is a double edged sword. Knowledge is scary.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Jan 17 2018, 10:54 AM

I know that Capri Campers weighs each individual unit prior to leaving the factory (with all the ordered accessories installed) and that is what they affix as the weight sticker. Don't know of anyone else that does that.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Jan 17 2018, 10:55 AM

Maybe things will change with Lance, now that they have been bought out by REV Industries. Lance has to be the biggest offender of actual weight versus fantasy weight.

Posted by: Jknight611 Feb 6 2018, 01:44 PM

Tale of the scale, it continued to bother me, so I weighed my rig on a CAT scale just as we started on a trip, about 1/2 tank of water and full of diesel, normal groceries, clothes and “stuff”.

Front axle 4150. Under by 350
Rear axle. 6620. Over by 536
Trailer 2500. Under (empty enclosed tandem trailer)

Grand total of 10,760 on the truck My truck manufacturers gross is 9200, 1560 lbs over gross on the truck with tongue weight of empty trailer. Adds up really quickly!

Soooo

I bit the big bullet and traded my 2009 2500 for a new 3500,

Gross weight 13,025
Front axle is 5600 gw
Rear axle is 9375 gw

Waiting on Torklift tiedowns to be delivered so don’t know the loaded weight but bet I am under gross now!

Posted by: emcvay Feb 8 2018, 08:53 AM

I see questions like this asked all over the net but the one thing I haven't seen is anyone siting a single case of a civil suit where a camper on a pickup that was over the GVW being the reason etc, for the accident and therefore a reason for compensation.

I suspect the reason is that the door sticker doesn't actually mean a whole lot. Yes I said that. The sticker police will want to argue but it matters not. Site a case.

The axle on my truck is actually rated by the manufacturer at 9750lbs not the 7000lbs Ford rates it at. This is because of lawyers. The FMC rates the truck based on the 'weakest link' and since the tires are rated at 7000lbs (3500 ea) they rate the rear axle accordingly. Yes they also rate the springs etc etc but they always go by the lower number 'to be on the safe side'. So, should someone replace said weaker components then they may no longer be over their GVW by any reasonable measure.

It might be mentioned that court findings are often based on whether or not a person knowingly or intentionally did one egregious act or another. So if one plopped a 12 foot camper on a 1500 and went and wrecked it's likely they would be at fault and lose the battle. Whereas, someone with a built F350 who plops a 9 footer with a sticker on the back that says 3000# who gets in an accident is not likely to be found to knowingly or intentionally doing anything wrong. Sure they might be over, but did they know that (prove it), and were they over the sticker? The real axle weight? The sum of the components? Did they put new E rated 4400# tires and wheels on? Replace the spring pack Put new better shocks on? Were they towing? If not, were they over what the manufacturer said the brakes are able to stop? All of these things come into play and many of the overweight rigs I've discussed with others are only overweight by the door sticker but not the axle or the components they've added to allow for the extra weight.

Just my 2c

Posted by: Jknight611 Feb 8 2018, 08:53 PM

I absolutely agree that a properly equipped truck is not a hazard if slightly overgross weight. The truck is certified by the manufacturer as a certain gross weight, maybe braking performance, some sort of evasive handling test, or maybe a known (by the manufacturer) structural issue. I have been a professional pilot for my entire working career, the term “overgross “ places the pilot at fault for most any enforcement action. The RV industry doesn’t seem to have concerns about gross weight, so maybe my concerns are unfounded.
Thanks for all the well considered responses!

Posted by: RV_Tech Feb 11 2018, 04:08 PM

There is always a disclaimer at the end of the brochures about not exceeding the truck manufacturer's rating. Truck camper manufacturers just put it off on the owner. The rest of the RV industry used to try to do the same, but a number of successful lawsuits against the manufacturers as well as access to scales at rallies shifted the emphasis a good bit.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Feb 11 2018, 04:40 PM

It's all about 'everything is peachy' until you get in an emergency situation and you cannot stop in time or the unit tips over because the truck cannot handle the weight and someone gets injured or killed.

The the lawyers have a field day and you become the victim financially.

Just read in the paper a 90+ year old guy was driving his motor home the wrong way on a Florida freeway and killed 2 young gals.

1. He's done driving
2. He'll get financially wiped out
3. He'll be charged and prosecuted for vehicular homicide.

You could easily be in the same boat with an grossly overloaded truck camper if, you cannot stop in a safe distance in an emergency situation and run down someone or run into another vehicle (assured clear distance) or in an evasive situation, tip the unit over and injure a bystander or another vehicle.

For me, the risk of being overweight far outweighs the consequences.. I always want to be under my GVW to be safe because you never know when you might have to stand on the brakes or swerve to miss something.

Posted by: Jknight611 Feb 13 2018, 09:08 AM

Sidecar, I absolutely wholeheartedly agree! My Northstar has a “out the door, as equipped weight” on the manufacturer’s data plate. My helium got away..... when the TV lawyers find a target as easy as this is to harvest....... one call, that’s all!

Posted by: SidecarFlip Feb 13 2018, 10:51 AM

People get an RV (not just a TC, but any RV) and then think they can 'take the house' along. Don't work that way. Everything weighs something and weights add up

With my wife and I, it's camping, not 'Glamping. I take the minimal amount along and keep the weight down. Like Issac Newton said, 'an object in motion, tends to stay in motion' and the heavier it is, the harder it is to stop (in time to avoid a crash). You never know when you'll need to stop quickly or swerve to avoid that crash.

I always prefer to err on the side of being under capacity for my truck and I've been in those situations where I've had to stop quickly and I was thankful I was able to.

No triple slide loaded up, generator equipped TC for me. Light is right here.

If I want luxury, I'll stay at the Holiday Inn or the Sheraton and drive my car. One, gets better fuel mileage and two is easier to park.

We are going to Florida next winter for a month with another couple who also have a TC. We are leaving the campers at home and renting a condo on the beach for a month. We penciled out the cost, taking the TC's for a month versus renting a condo and the cost, driving down with the TC's, campground site rent and all associated costs, far exceed the cost of driving down (in the car) renting a beach condo and just buying groceries for a month.

Besides, with the TC, we'd have to tote it along everywhere we went (most CG's won't allow you to offload a camper). I can play 'tourist' much easier with my car.

I can make it a suitcase trip. When renting a condo, everything is included, even a washer and dryer, all you need is your clothes... and swimming trunks...lol

A beachfront condo is 2 grand for am month split in half is a grand each way. Just driving down from here (Michigan) with the TC would cost a couple hundred in fuel.

Much more sensible to rent a condo and drive the car down.

Sure you can tell we are tired of the winter up here in Tundra land.

Posted by: wintertree Feb 14 2018, 08:58 PM

Some people can stay in a Truck camper for long periods of time (couples) with out an issue....We are not those people.....we really enjoy our unit...its large and roomy (for a TC)....has a separate shower (dry bath....no just outside ...lol)....micro....tv....you know...most of the things we take for granted at home...(good size fridge for wobbly pops)...but When we head out for an extended time of travels....we can go for about a month...sometimes less.....and we will rent a cabin....or something similar for about a week....off load the camper...and become grounded to mother earth for a while...It allows us some time with space...no set-up...etc. A few days later we are ready to hit the road in our rig...This way our travels enjoy the versatility of a TC (being able to explore and park many ...many places a motor home or truck trailer combo would not) on our way to our destination. Instead of investing in a monster fifth wheel or something similar and the hassle of hauling it (they are destination type RV's) we get to explore carefully on our way to our destination....We have friends that do end up in area's that we eventually make it to....but with their rig its a mad dash to get there....where ever that is....with not alot of "smelling the roses" along the way....By traveling with a TC and allowing for time outs a smaller rig can be realized without loosing your cool.....and getting into conflicts with your significant other when you need some space..

Works for us

Posted by: SidecarFlip Feb 15 2018, 10:08 PM

We do the same thing kind of. When we go somewhere with a definite destination (like Maine in August), we will have the TC on the truck but stay in motels on the way up. I find staying in motels in route easier than looking for a campground and you can get a Super 8 for about the same price as a campsite in a nice campground. When we get to Maine in August, we will camp the entire time but on the way back again, we will motel it. Just easier for us.

I know it sounds odd, but for us, it works.

Posted by: don89 Nov 8 2022, 11:16 PM

Staying in motels is indeed easier than finding a campground. But the same logic works in reverse. If you find a nice campground in Maine to stay, you can then have your camper at your disposal the whole time you are on vacation. You can go to the beach and enjoy swimming and boating. If you go back to the campground or camp, you can cook in your camper and enjoy a meal on the deck of your camper.

Posted by: Haland78 Nov 8 2022, 11:31 PM

I have done the same thing, and I have done the opposite. I had been camping, in my youth, a lot and found it a lot of fun. But now I am older and I got kids, I find it hard to manage the tent set up and some things. So, with this in mind, I have moved to the other side of the spectrum. Of course, in the end, it is all about the experience and what you enjoy. Now on what I do, when I go out for multi day hiking trips, I tend to use a hammock and a tarp shelter. I find this option a lot more lighter and easier to set up. However, when you are staying in campgrounds, you are saving more money because you don’t have to pay for hotel and motels anymore. Another reason why you shouldn’t do what you suggested is that you can enjoy the view while you are driving to your destination. And also I would suggest going for a campground with campground insurance( https://www.standardinsurance.ca/products-services/specialty/rv-campground-insurance/ ). I once had to make an insurance claim when I accidentally tripped and fell into a lake during a camping trip. If it weren't for the insurance, I wouldn't have gotten the thousands of dollars I needed to pay for the damages to my camper. It pays to go prepared