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Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Dec 26 2017, 12:31 PM

We have owned our 2002 Vanguard 9.5 TC for about 8 years now and grown to love it. Purchased in very good to excellent condition , we are now considering something with a slide out. Currently, we are looking at a 2008 Lance 1181 for more floor space.

We carry our TC , which weighs approx., 2600 lbs on a 2002 F-250 LWB SRW 4x4 with Firestone air bags. It's a 7.3 diesel and typically get about 11-12 mpg on average.

I would expect that going to a heavier TC would impact the MPG that we currently get. The Lance 1181 is approx. 3600 dry. For us the question is , is the slide out worth it for the decrease in mpg.

So. my question goes out to anyone with a similar truck but with a heavier TC than we have, what kind of average MPG do you get ?? Thank you

Posted by: RV_Tech Dec 26 2017, 01:10 PM

Mileage will be impacted more by wind resistance than weight at speed, so I would not expect it to change much, but I am betting you will be well over 4,000 pounds ready to roll.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Dec 26 2017, 01:38 PM

Mileage will be impacted more by wind resistance than weight at speed, so I would not expect it to change much, but I am betting you will be well over 4,000 pounds ready to roll.

Posted by: Chief 2 Dec 27 2017, 06:14 AM

I previously owned a 2005 1181. It is heavy. To heavy for the F-250. You need to go with a dually. Other than that we loved our 1181.

Posted by: RV_Tech Dec 27 2017, 07:04 AM

I know in the Lance brochure that model is listed as requiring a dually.

Posted by: mbrink Dec 27 2017, 12:20 PM

I owned a 2001 Ford F250 CC shortbed 7.3 diesel for 17 years. Also had a Lance 820 for 15 years. That combo worked great, even when towing a jeep on a flat bed. Plenty of power and felt I could control the load. Yes was over weight even with the Lance

I sold the Lance and bought a 2011 Artic Fox 811 w/slide out. Night and day difference in the camper with the basement, slide out, AC and generator. So much more room than the Lance, even tough both about the same length. That slide out adds to the complexity also, but so far so good.

My Ford handled it well, but the camper was much heavier, and more top heavy. I felt it was much too for the truck when it came to stopping and stability. It stopped better when towing the Jeep due to the dual brakes on the trailer. But overloaded. Got 12 mpg towing, about the same has a Lance.

I have since sold the Ford and bought a 2018 Dodge 3500 short bed single axle. What a huge difference on stability and stopping. Auto exhaust brake is amazing, as are bigger brakes. Just hope the new truck is as reliable as the old 7.3

I know you main question was MPG, but thought I would share my experiecce.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Dec 27 2017, 05:04 PM

I owned a 2001 Ford F250 CC shortbed 7.3 diesel for 17 years.  Also had a Lance 820 for 15 years.  That combo worked great, even when towing a jeep on a flat bed.  Plenty of power and felt I could control the load.  Yes was over weight even with the Lance

I sold the Lance and bought a 2011 Artic Fox 811 w/slide out.   Night and day difference in the camper with the basement, slide out, AC and generator.  So much more room than the Lance, even tough both about the same length.  That slide out adds to the complexity also, but so far so good.

My Ford handled it well, but the camper was much heavier, and more top heavy.  I felt it was much too for the truck when it came to stopping and stability.  It stopped better when towing the Jeep due to the dual brakes on the trailer.   But overloaded.   Got 12 mpg towing, about the same has a Lance.

I have since sold the Ford and bought a 2018 Dodge 3500 short bed single axle.  What a huge difference on stability and stopping.  Auto exhaust brake is amazing, as are bigger brakes.  Just hope the new truck is as reliable as the old 7.3

I know you main question was MPG, but thought I would share my experiecce.

Posted by: RV_Tech Dec 27 2017, 06:43 PM

If you go by the conventional wisdom of adding 1,000 pounds to the manufacturer's dry weight to arrive at a closer estimate of traveling weight, I think that would mean over 4,500 pounds. Lot of weight with a relatively high center of gravity might make for more sway. It has often been said that the manufacturer's dry weight is "what the manufacturer wished it weighed". The only weights I believe are the one's I get when I weigh on a CAT scale. Just my thought.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Dec 27 2017, 07:27 PM

If you go by the conventional wisdom of adding 1,000 pounds to the manufacturer's dry weight to arrive at a closer estimate of traveling weight, I think that would mean over 4,500 pounds. Lot of weight with a relatively high center of gravity might make for more sway. It has often been said that the manufacturer's dry weight is "what the manufacturer wished it weighed". The only weights I believe are the one's I get when I weigh on a CAT scale. Just my thought.

Posted by: mbrink Dec 27 2017, 09:32 PM

What F rated tires do you run? I am always concerned about the single rear tires. I have E rated at about 3,500#. I would love to get I higher rating.

Things were rated different back in 2001. My F250, CC, SB, 4WD, 7.3 had a list payload of only 1400 pounds. Crazy. We all know it can handle much more. Was concerned about times about liability if in accident when overloaded.

My 2018 3500 SWR Dodge has a payload for 3900 pounds. Even with that payload, once I add camper, people, water, dog, the tie downs, propane etc, I am likely over weight.

I added airbags from day one, which gave me ride weight. Friend with similar set up on a F350 also added airbags. I do not have airbags on my new one-ton and it seems to handle much better. Air bags give height, but they "slosh" back and forth giving sway.

Posted by: Chief 2 Dec 28 2017, 07:17 AM

Your weak link will be the tires and possibly the capability of the rear axel and brakes to handle the 1181 load. You will be WAY overweight hauling the 1181 on a 3/4 ton truck.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Dec 28 2017, 10:14 AM

What F rated tires do you run?  I am always concerned about the single rear tires.  I have E rated at about 3,500#.  I would love to get I higher rating.

Things were rated different back in 2001.  My F250, CC, SB, 4WD, 7.3 had a list payload of only 1400 pounds.  Crazy.    We all know it can handle much more. Was concerned about times about liability if in accident when overloaded.

My 2018 3500 SWR Dodge has a payload for 3900 pounds.  Even with that payload, once I add camper, people, water, dog, the tie downs, propane etc, I am likely over weight. 

I added airbags from day one, which gave me ride weight.  Friend with similar set up on a F350 also added airbags.  I do not have airbags on my new one-ton and it seems to handle much better.  Air bags give height, but they "slosh" back and forth giving sway.

Posted by: mbrink Dec 28 2017, 07:24 PM

Likely a good choice. Like all things, life if full of compromises. I took my Lance 820 places people said it could not go while getting into hunting camps. I never felt concerned nor had a problem.

With old truck, or even new one, I would not take my newer Artic Fox 811 to the same camps. Just that much heavier, and higher center of gravity. Plus has more overhang.

See other topics about trading in trailers/RVs for a TC. We have only had a TC (tons of tent camping), and for the two of us provides all we need. We tend to stay outside in camp, and use TC for cooking, sleeping, and restroom. That said, as I get closer to retirement a Fifth Wheel is interesting, but likely not to happen. As long as we can climb the steps into our 811, it really is great for us.

Back to the topic, our Lance 820 was a great camper Really had all we needed. We were at a flux in life and sold it (in a day). Then friends got at TC, and we started looking and found great deal on AF 811. Love it. We also love tent camping in the middle of now where with Tent/Jeep.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Dec 29 2017, 09:04 AM

Bigger barge (camper) = bigger truck. All Lance campers are heavy, much heavier than the sticker weight states. I know, I had one. Was 1000 pounds over sticker... dry.

It's gone, don't miss it.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Dec 29 2017, 11:42 AM

Bigger barge (camper) = bigger truck.  All Lance campers are heavy, much heavier than the sticker weight states.  I know, I had one.  Was 1000 pounds over sticker...  dry.

It's gone, don't miss it.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Dec 29 2017, 02:09 PM

Interesting comments. So, when I started this topic I said that my concern going to a heavier camper was MPG.
Some of these comments reminded me that originally the whole reason for changing out our great TC was concerns about the expandable stairs ( 5 steps) and getting up on the bed. Were getting older and in consideration of that , we thought there might be some better options. The only one we saw that worked was the Lance 1181. There are many but we like a dry shower and all the other stuff. And many with a lower bed and easy access either don't or are too heavy. Not trading my 2002 F250 7.3 with 148K miles just so I can get a dually. We have never needed a generator. We stay at RV parks.
So, think we'll be staying with our 2002 Vanguard 9.5 for a while longer.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Dec 29 2017, 11:01 PM

I'm probably older than you (68) wife 67 and we both have issues getting in the cab over bed.  I added a ladder that removes when not in use.  Makes getting in and out, easy.

I don't miss my Lance barge at all.  Especially when going off road or down the road.  My Palomino pop up... don't even know it's back there.  I always knew the Lance was back there...always.

I get good mileage as well.  15 with the pop up all the time average.  20 seconds to put the roof up and 6' 6" headroom raised.  Even has a crapper and shower for the wife.  Me, I can use the woods.

I'd never go back to a hardside TC.  Between off season storage issues, wind buffeting and that top heavy feeling, I don't miss them at all.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Dec 31 2017, 09:31 PM

I can look right through mine as well but I have a camera mounted on the back of the camper. Makes life a lot easier, especially when towing the quads.

Far as access goes, out pop-up is fully accessable (except the bunk) with the roof down. Toilet, fridge and even the dinette bed is useable. been discussing just that on RVNet in the TC section.

We stop in a rest stop, drop the TL Stow and Go steps, open the door, climb in and go potty or get a sandwich and a cold drink, no issue. In a pinch, we could use the dinette bunk to sleep on with the roof down, not that I would but if I had to stop in say a Wal-Mart parking lot I would.

I cannot stand up of course but it is a pop up, not a hardside and being a pop up, the vertical Cg is lower and the overall weight is lower as well so it makes for a more pleasant drive without being concerned about things like overloaded tires and rims and over taxed brakes.

I don't even know it's back there actually and my truck being a 1997 7.3 isn't exactly a horsepower monster.

Different strokes for diffeeent folks. We went from a pull behind pop up tent camper to a travel trailer to a Hardside Lance to the Palomino pop up and all in all, we like the pop up the best of all we have owned, but again, out personal preference.

The one thing I really like about the pop up TC is the ease of off season storage. It fits in my garage. Truck in one bay, camper in the other. Inside, out of the elements. I usually keep it in the garage when not in use, in the summer too. RV's kept inside last far longer than those stored outside. Mine will be 3 years old this spring and looks showroom new, inside and outside and I expect it to stay that way for long time.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Jan 1 2018, 11:27 AM

I can look right through mine as well but I have a camera mounted on the back of the camper.  Makes life a lot easier, especially when towing the quads.

Far as access goes, out pop-up is fully accessable (except the bunk) with the roof down.  Toilet, fridge and even the dinette bed is useable.  been discussing just that on RVNet in the TC section.

We stop in a rest stop, drop the TL Stow and Go steps, open the door, climb in and go potty or get a sandwich and a cold drink, no issue.  In a pinch, we could use the dinette bunk to sleep on with the roof down, not that I would but if I had to stop in say a Wal-Mart parking lot I would.

I cannot stand up of course but it is a pop up, not a hardside and being a pop up, the vertical Cg is lower and the overall weight is lower as well so it makes for a more pleasant drive without being concerned about things like overloaded tires and rims and over taxed brakes.

I don't even know it's back there actually and my truck being a 1997 7.3 isn't exactly a horsepower monster.

Different strokes for diffeeent folks.  We went from a pull behind pop up tent camper to a travel trailer to a Hardside Lance to the Palomino pop up and all in all, we like the pop up the best of all we have owned, but again, out personal preference.

The one thing I really like about the pop up TC is the ease of off season storage.  It fits in my garage.  Truck in one bay, camper in the other.  Inside, out of the elements.  I usually keep it in the garage when not in use, in the summer too.  RV's kept inside last far longer than those stored outside.  Mine will be 3 years old this spring and looks showroom new, inside and outside and I expect it to stay that way for long time.

Posted by: JADE RACING Jan 4 2018, 03:59 PM

Interesting. You've schooled me. I am interested in the rear view camera. I would need a wireless one and have looked on line but have no idea which to buy. Just don't want to spend a fortune. Don't really need it but I like gadgets. Any recommendations on reliability and price would be appreciated.

Posted by: SidecarFlip Jan 4 2018, 07:44 PM

My wife bought me a Furrion for Christmas, year before last. Don't know the asking price (was a gift) but it works fantastic, has nigh vision and a backup grid you can turn on and off. Has good range too. I can be 45-50 feet from the camper and it works fine. In color too.

I picked up the hot wire from my clearance lights to power the camera.

Posted by: TurboCorsa180 Jan 6 2018, 02:37 PM

Have been reading your posts about single slide t/c and from my experiences I would not go to any single slide without upgrading to a dually truck. As to your interest into rear view cameras, I bought a unit last year while wintering in Florida and took it home and installed it thinking it would not work very well. Quite a pleasant surprise when the unit works as well as it has. Bought it off of e-bay for under 60 $ The unit came with a 5" monitor[colour] and a night vision  wireless camera. Search RV wireless backup camera kit .Hope this will help.