Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ short bed or long bed camper for me, trying to decide on correct configuratio

[larryh]

I am a fifth wheeler. My rig is way to big for national forests many federal and state parks, etc. so I am looking to get a slide in for my truck.

I have a 2008 450 superduty diesel. I cannot imagine a camper that will not work with my GVWR.

However, I have a crewcab with a longbed. overall length of my truck is 22 feet.

The problem I have is a 50 gallon external fuel tank in the front of the bed. this tank takes up about 21 inches in front of the bed. I do not want to remove this tank.

I thought my problem was length of the camper, but now I see there is an issue with the point of center of gravity.

I am interested in what my options might be. (1) put in a short bed camper or (2) put in a long bed camper with some support in the back. Or (3) something else entirely.

If there is more information to gather can someone give me advice on how to proceed?

LarryH

[TODDFINK]

I am a fifth wheeler.  My rig is way to big for national forests many federal and state parks, etc.  so I am looking to get a slide in for my truck.

I have a 2008 450 superduty diesel.  I cannot imagine a camper that will not work with my GVWR.

However, I have a crewcab with a longbed.  overall length of my truck is 22 feet.

The problem I have is a 50 gallon external fuel tank in the front of the bed.  this tank takes up about 21 inches in front of the bed.  I do not want to remove this tank.

I thought my problem was  length of the camper, but now I see there is an issue with the point of center of gravity. 

I am interested in what my options might be.  (1) put in a short bed camper or (2) put in a long bed camper with some support in the back.  Or (3) something else entirely.

If there is more information to gather can someone give me advice on how to proceed?

LarryH

I would go with a shortbed camper IMHO. However it does come down to COG. I have an 8ft camper in my 6.5ft bed. My center of gravity on the camper is about an 1" forward of the axle center so even though it hangs out it is fine for the COG.

Thats what i would concentrate on. In your owners manual it should show you the area of where a camper cog can be placed. You might still be ok with a longer camper. Just have to measure.

The only down side really would be bed side covers won't work to close up storage. Also custom mounting may need to be figured out.

Are you gonna tow a trailer with the camper? If so, again you have to extend your hitch which will drop your allowable tounge weight.

Good luck and let us know what you figure out. Pics too!

[larryh]

I would go with a shortbed camper IMHO. However it does come down to COG. I have an 8ft camper in my 6.5ft bed. My center of gravity on the camper is about an 1" forward of the axle center so even though it hangs out it is fine for the COG.

Thats what i would concentrate on. In your owners manual it should show you the area of where a camper cog can be placed. You might still be ok with a longer camper. Just have to measure.

The only down side really would be bed side covers won't work to close up storage. Also custom mounting may need to be figured out.

Are you gonna tow a trailer with the camper? If so, again you have to extend your hitch which will drop your allowable tounge weight.

Good luck and let us know what you figure out. Pics too!

I will let all know. I don't know if anyone else has already done this. The insight I gained from reading here primarily is about the COG. I haven't seen, but I suppose I can obtain from the manufactuers' exactly where the COG is. Then I can see how that works out by measuring where a particular unit would sit on the truck....I surmise that a variety of different Long bed campers have a varying point of COG.

Can someone explain a little more about COG. For example if the truck has a large reserve of carrying capacity is the exact placement of the camper on the bed as critical. Also, if the camper's COG is significantly toward the cab from the recommended point, is that fine. In other words, is it only bad when the camper is aft of the trucks recommended point?

[Spanky]

I would think that if the fuel tank is full that it would offset the COG somewhat....

[Sailor Dave]

I just picked up my 2012 F350 and ordered it with the slide in camper package. The information sheet that came with the truck shows 2 measurements from the rear edge of the bed and the camper center of gravity must fall between these 2 measurements. So, to answer your question, the center of gravity of the camper can be too far forward as well as too far back. To far forward and you may exceed your front axle weight rating.

Your diesel engin is going to rob you of about 700 pounds of load capacity, that 50 gallon tank another 350 pounds or so and the crew cab even more. A good place to start might be to get a current curb weight of your truck ( full fuel, empty truck) and subtract that from your GVWR to see exactly what your load capacity really is. Different options on a truck may have a big effect on the curb weight. I have a 13,300 GVWR but my curb weight is over 7,000 and I have the gas engine and a supercab. Dont forget that you have to count the body weight of all passengers into the cargo load (not curb weight).

CAT truck scales are easy to use and only cost about 10 bucks.

Another issue may be the placement of the tie downs. If the camper is going to sit behind the bed mounted fuel tank it may be a long reach to the tiedowns.

[Sailor Dave]

One more thing. That 50 gallon tank in the front of your truck bed is probably going to show up as weight on the front axle. At the CAT scale you will get a front axle weight, rear axle weight and total weight.

[Sailor Dave]

Here is a link to the Truck Camper Magazine buyers guide. If you click on the banners of the manufactures it will give you the specs, including center of gravity for their units.

http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/buyers-guide/

[Sailor Dave]

This may be of some help as well. But I don't know if your truck has the Camper Package Option. That would be listed on the window sticker.

http://www.ford.com/assets/pdf/towing/07RVTTgdeMay07.pdf

You can get try to get a window sticker here:

http://researchmaniacs.com/VIN-Number-Look...icker/Ford.html

[Sailor Dave]

Larry,

Just got home and pulled out the truck camper loading guide that came with my truck. As I said its a 2012 F350 DRW with an 8 foot bed. I ordered it with the camper package and the loading guide came with the truck. To the best of my knowledge these loading guides only come when the camper option is ordered. My VIN # is on the sheet so it seems that these are customized for individual vehicles. Its a single sheet of paper titled "Consumer Information: Truck Camper Loading"

Anyway, back to the center of gravity issue. On MY truck the first measurement on the guide is 45 inches from the rear edge of the bed and the second measurement is 69 inches from the rear of the bed. That gives a 24" "Center of Gravity Location Zone". It states that the center of gravity of the camper has to fall within that zone. These measurements are for the maxium cargo weight rating of 6,034. At lesser weights the second measurement changes: at 4621 pounds its 71.3 inches, at 3851 pounds its 76 inches and at 3080 its 83 inches. The first measurement of 45 inches always remains the same. So it looks like the lighter the camper the larger the "Zone" is and closer the center of gravity can be toward the front of the bed. I have no idea why these specific weights are quoted as "reduced cargo capacity". I'm just quoting the sheet.

Hope this makes some sense. If not feel free to ask questions and I will try to clairify things.

Dave

[larryh]

do you have a supercab or crewcab superduty?
What is the distance from the front of your bed to the center line of your rear axle?

Does the 45 inch measurement from the rear of your bed coincide with the centerline of your rear axle?

In your measurement I am guessing it is which means it is about 53 inches from the front of the bed.

I purchased a camper with a center of gravity of 57 inches....which puts me 4 inches off in my 450 bed.

The result is weight is not evenly distributed. I removed the fuel tank completely. But I will am looking at possible a 350 supercab. If I can get the center of gravity right.

This is crazy, but I haven't seen anything to suggest any camper with a >53 inch center of gravity will work in these trucks....and there are plenty of campers available now that do. The new Chalet with triple slide is actually 61 inches.

[elkhornsun]

Most F-450 trucks have a lower payload capacity than the F-350 trucks due to the heavier weight of the truck itself. The axle will handle over 10k lbs. so the limitation becomes the tires on the truck which can be easily upgraded.

The COG of campers for both long and short bed us will have it placed dead center over the rear axle. Usually the dimensions provided by the manufacturer are based on the distance back from the rear of the cab, but not always.

One thing you will sacrifice in general is dual batteries with a short bed camper. Lance was at one time offering a second battery as an option on its 855 camper.

Whatever camper you buy plan on the wet weight being 1000 lbs. over the manufacturer's specified "dry" weight.

I am not to good with campers but i would always suggest you to take input from a technically sound person, as he will have all the necessary information and will also give you proper and reliable advice.

[aqualung]

Larry

One other point to mention:

If you have your fuel tank full it will also change where the COG of your load is. Its not so important where the camper's COG is, it is important where the COG is for the camper and fuel tank combined. This combined COG must land within the COG zone that Sailor Dave mentioned. Also don't forget that the COG will move back as you empty the fuel tank.

If you can, measure the front and rear axle weights with the extra fuel tank empty and no camper. Then load the camper and do it again with the fuel tank empty. If the second measurement for the front axle weight has gone down then the combined COG of camper and empty fuel tank is too far back, if it goes up you're fine (COG is in front of the rear axle). Now take a third measurement with the camper loaded and the fuel tank full, passengers in the truck and camper loaded with all of your goodies. With this third measurement make sure you have not exceeded the GAWR of the front axle or the rear axle and that the GVWR is also not exceeded, if these are ok then your rig is fine. The Truck Camper Loading sheet just takes care of the math for you by limiting the camper to what works but it doesn't consider the extra fuel tank.

Hope this helps.

[Sailor Dave]

Larrhy,

Sorry I haven??¢â??¬â??¢t gotten back to you sooner. To answer your questions:

I chose the Supercab over the Crewcab in order to lower my curb weight and thus increase my load capacity. I almost went with the regular cab to further increase my load capacity but wanted the extra storage and made the compromise. Just as I chose the XL over the XLT in order to stay within my budget and to avoid the extra curb weight of the XLT. I spent almost 2 years researching this stuff in an attempt to get it right. I found out from Ford that every option added to the basic no frills XL regular cab adds to the curb weight as well. When they advertise their load capacity, they are quoting a totally stripped down base model with a regular cab.

Yes, 45 inches from the rear of the truck box is over the rear axle and that means 53 inches from the front bulkhead of the box (45 + 53 = 98). So the center of gravity on my camper had to be 53 inches or less.

I originally wanted an Arctic Fox 1140 but found the COG was 54 inches, which puts it 1 inch behind the rear axle. So I checked the 1150 model and found the COG to be 49.5, a much better fit for my truck (I went to dealer and took these measurements myself). Strange thing is both of these campers were equipped the same and have the same 11 foot 4 inch floor length. It seems the reason for the almost 5 inch difference in COG is the 1140 has a larger fridge and its placed further back behind the truck's rear axle. I will be going with the 1150.

I know what you mean about truck camper??¢â??¬â??¢s COG and getting the right truck to haul them. I have had people on some forums state that most pickups hauling truck campers are overweight or unbalanced or both. Well, maybe that??¢â??¬â??¢s OK for them but I want my girlfriend and I to be as safe (and legal) as possible and have every intention of staying within my GVWR and COG measurement. Remember that the GVRW cannot be changed once the truck leaves the factory. Yes, you can add different tires, springs, shocks, sway bars and such but that won??¢â??¬â??¢t change the GVWR or cover your liability if you should get into an accident and the police weigh your vehicle and find you over weight. And, for me, staying within the truck manufacturers specs means using the truck the way it was designed.

What does one do with a mammoth like the Chalet triple slide? I suppose you buy an F450 chassis cab, which is designed for a 9 foot box, and have a custom built box.

The truck camper manufactures and dealers leave the truck choice to the buyer and I would guess they aren??¢â??¬â??¢t real straight shooters when giving advice about it. It??¢â??¬â??¢s a shame but that??¢â??¬â??¢s how it is. I much prefer doing my own research and taking the responsibility of having the right truck camper match.

I hope this information helps you out. If I can be of further assistance just let me know.

Sailor Dave

[Sailor Dave]

Just want to add that I agree with ELKHORNSUN about added weight. I loaded all the gear I will be taking into the pickup, put my girlfriend into the front seat with me and headed off to the CAT scale. Proved to be an increase of 860 pounds over the curb weight of the truck. Add groceries and a dozen gallons of water to travel with and your darn close to an additional 1,000 pounds.

[larryh]

so this is what happened to me. I decided the short bed camper was just not going to work for us....So, I bought a longbed camper and removed the auxillary fuel tank. I ended up buying a used Bigfot camper. I was told the weight of the camper was 3800 lbs but in reality it was 4500 lbs on the scale.

I was told it would fit on the truck with the cog at the center of the rear axle. When loaded, it was 4 inches behind the center of the axle. I then noted that there were three inch rubber bumpers on the front of the camper so as not to cause any rubbing of camper on the front of the box. I have a rail with a bumper in front the turnbuckles attach to with ruber which actually allows the the camper to ride about 1/2 in from the front.

This now leaves me one inch behind the center of the axle. Not good, but in weighing the unit it does not reduce the weight on the front axle. I have a 6.4 diesel so I still havce plenty of weight up front and it drives extremely well. however I was quite upset . And almost undid the deal which would have been difficult.

However, I am now sitting right at the GAWR andI bet i will add more stuff and will probably exceed the rear gvwr by 100 to 200 lbs. I have G load michelin tires on the truck so the weight rating at 110 lbspsi is almost 16000 lbs. So I think I am ok there.

It does squat down on the back, so I am thinking airbags.....I may also go for a new truck this year and will definitely do the 350 bringing me back with the weight with some wiggle room left over. However, without going to a chassis truck, I see no way to get the COG perfect. I do my best to put as much forward of the axle inside the camper with weight, so feel I am close, especially since the camper is not taking weight from the front axle.

I didn't pull this off perfectly, and hopefully will do better next time. But how can the manufacturer put rubber bumpers adding three inches on the front of the camper pushing it behind the rear axle. WHAT are they thinking?

I see no truck where the rear axle is further back than 44 inches from the rear of the bed, and that does not include the protrusion of the taillight assemblies, and the camper can't hit those..I am within about 1/4 inches from my tailight assembly.

Writing a long post here hoping it will help some other poor soul who is looking to put a camper on a truck.

Thanks to everyone for their input and advice......

[elkhornsun]

You do not want to use air bags to reduce squat in the rear. Instead add a set of SuperSprings which will add to the OEM springs to increase the load capacity of the rear axle. Good idea to also add heavy duty shocks like the Rancho 9000XL adjustable shocks.

Air bags help if one side of the camper is a lot heavier than the other side and you want to level the camper left to right.

With a very heavy camper like the one you plan on using you will want to be careful about the loading of the camper including the weight of the fluids inside the holding tanks. I would also want to verify that the rims will support the load and not just the tires.

[larryh]

You do not want to use air bags to reduce squat in the rear. Instead add a set of SuperSprings which will add to the OEM springs to increase the load capacity of the rear axle. Good idea to also add heavy duty shocks like the Rancho 9000XL adjustable shocks.

Air bags help if one side of the camper is a lot heavier than the other side and you want to level the camper left to right.

With a very heavy camper like the one you plan on using you will want to be careful about the loading of the camper including the weight of the fluids inside the holding tanks. I would also want to verify that the rims will support the load and not just the tires.

Thanks, I will check into this especially the shocks.

[Sailor Dave]

Larryh,

If you do buy that new truck be sure to check the axle measurement before hand. You might be surprised.

I have a 2012 F350 DWR with the supercab and my rear axle measures about 53 inches back from the front of the box.

4500 pounds dry is a heavy camper. Add your cargo and passengers and your probably over 5000.

D