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> hard sides and SRW trucks

RV_Tech
post Mar 23 2018, 10:10 AM
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Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Here's my question of the day. If you have a 3/4 ton and a hard side TC and (the "and" is really the important part) you have weighed you combination on a CAT scale when you are fully loaded and ready to roll, have you been within the GVWR posted on the sticker on your door jam.

Same question for 1 ton SRW truck owners.

Quoting from manufacturers' spec sheet for the weights of either does not count! mad.gif
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wintertree
post Mar 24 2018, 08:32 AM
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Member No.: 9,949
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Snowbird 108DS
Type of Tiedowns used: torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2016 F-450..upgraded overload springs...Torklift tie downs...single slide Hard wall camper with dry bath...solar...inverter...genset..full thermal package...extra black and grey tankage...kayak and paddle board



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 23 2018, 09:10 AM)
Here's my question of the day.  If you have a 3/4 ton and a hard side TC and (the "and" is really the important part) you have weighed you combination on a CAT scale when you are fully loaded and ready to roll, have you been within the GVWR posted on the sticker on your door jam.

Same question for 1 ton SRW truck owners.

Quoting from manufacturers' spec sheet for the weights of either does not count!  mad.gif
*




My Scenario just for information....My truck weight.. 8800LBS (truck only) From Fords data on this model
Hard wall TC... 3500LBS On sticker....=====12,300lbs total from data

Fully loaded with all our stuff...full fuel tank....full fresh water tank....two people and a dog (done at a weigh scale)==========13,700lbs

DRW F-450....14,000 GVW

By the time I return after our travels....I am usually over weight as I am carrying some extra stuff we collected along the way

Camper is large....but there is two models / classes above ours that are heavier

Truck is the largest / heaviest conventional truck you can buy....next jump would be a cab and chassis 550
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RV_Tech
post Mar 24 2018, 11:18 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(wintertree @ Mar 24 2018, 09:32 AM)
My Scenario just for information....My truck weight.. 8800LBS (truck only) From Fords data on this model
Hard wall TC... 3500LBS On sticker....=====12,300lbs total from data

Fully loaded with all our stuff...full fuel tank....full fresh water tank....two people and a dog  (done at a weigh scale)==========13,700lbs

DRW F-450....14,000 GVW

By the time I return after our travels....I am usually over weight  as I am carrying some extra stuff we collected along the way

Camper is large....but there is two models / classes above ours that are heavier

Truck is the largest / heaviest conventional truck you can buy....next jump would be a cab and chassis 550
*



Thanks. The lack of response to my post could have many explanations. My own experience is, when asked, owners quote the printing specs and I wonder how many realize how hard it is to stay within the weight ratings on a SRW, even when going with a one ton. Time after time I read Internet discussions in which owners are making note of what the manufacturers publish as bare bones numbers. I read one post this morning in which an owner said his camper weighed 2,600 pounds wet, which actually is the published dry weight without options. A friend has that model and actual wet weight is north of 4,000. Quite a difference.

One manufacturer even has in print in their brochure they recommend a dually for a model many folks still refer to as a light weight TC and commonly put it on a 3/4 ton. I have never been able to ascertain if buyers don't know or know and do it anyway.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 24 2018, 09:01 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 23 2018, 10:10 AM)
Here's my question of the day.  If you have a 3/4 ton and a hard side TC and (the "and" is really the important part) you have weighed you combination on a CAT scale when you are fully loaded and ready to roll, have you been within the GVWR posted on the sticker on your door jam.

Same question for 1 ton SRW truck owners.

Quoting from manufacturers' spec sheet for the weights of either does not count!  mad.gif
*



I'm game... Yes and no.

No with the Lance I sold (was over my GVW) with my 1 ton SRW Ford.

Yes, I'm under with the Palomino pop up. One of the reasons I went with a pop-up besides the lower Cg. and lower profile. I'll never go back to a HS again.
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RV_Tech
post Mar 25 2018, 06:52 AM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



I'm not trying to trick anyone. Perusing the TC forums it struck me the overwhelming choice for haulers is a 3/4 ton truck, but when I read what folks had on them it struck me there could be no way they were not running overweight. So I am trying to figure out if most folks don't know if they are actually running overweight or if they just don't care. And I couldn't help but note the most often quoted weight figures were not from a CAT scale, but straight out of the manufacturer's brochures or specs sheets, none of which include even basic options.

That lead me to wondering which hard sides mated to SRW trucks keep owners under their numbers when owner and crew are onboard, along with Spot, Fluffy, and the assorted baggage. Even some of the pieces circulating the Web seem to forget the breathing component of the cargo, some of whom are well north of the 150 pound allotment quoted by the truck manufacturers.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 27 2018, 09:48 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Said a long tome ago, a barge is a barge and neither you and your wife (and cat) or me and my wife (no cat) own a barge and we are both fine with that. I've been there (with a barge on the back) and I knew it all the time, especially on the e-way in the wind or passing a truck and I'm not going back to that ever again.

Pop up's aren't fir everyone but it seems for us, they are just fine. If I ever bought another (doubtful) it would be another pop up. Hard sides are completely off my radar now. I get all the same appointments in a pop up, I get in a hard side minus the high driving profile and the higher vertical Cg. Whats not to like about that. For sure some hardsides come with fireplaces and self cleaning ovens and fancy entertainment centers but for my wife and I, it's camping, not carting all the home stuff along. With my Lance, I never used the oven ans rarely watched TV. We are outside except to sleep and eat breakfast or bathe and I'd rather sit under the awning if it's raining.

No more barges at this address.
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RV_Tech
post Mar 28 2018, 11:58 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



My guess is the lack of responses to this post pretty well speaks for itself.
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emcvay
post Apr 5 2018, 07:04 PM
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From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



Just saw this.

My old Fleetwood Angler 9D had a dry weight of 1680lbs according to fleetwood. I did not weigh the truck and camper but I'm very certain it was well under GVW as it had no options and even with 30 gallons of water (240lbs) and 5 gallons of propane (20lbs or so) it wouldn't come close to the slide in camper weight of 3370lbs much less the vehicle total GVW.

HOWEVER, I am now overweight.

I weighed today with full tanks and propane and 95% ready to roll out for the weekend. I won't normally have full water (no need for that much!) and intend to use only one propane tank but that would only save me about 230lbs or so and not get me below GVW.

2010 Ford F350 SD PS 4x4 Crew Cab -- estimated weight (since I have yet to weight it without tailgate etc -- is 7900lbs
2019 Arctic Fox 990 -- dry weight 3600lbs (maybe but I'm guessing more wink.gif )

CAT Scales:
Front Axle -- 5200lbs
Rear Axle -- 7680lbs
Total -- 12880 lbs

I have Toyo 4080lb tires so I'm under what they can carry though it's been pointed out the wheels are only rated at 3750 (so 7500lbs) and I'm over that by 180lbs

Stable Loads (upper and lower) and air bags (at 18psi) and the truck sits level (actually level without the air bags at all but I like to have them to pump up the rear if needed for towing).

So I'm over by 1380lbs without driver and passenger sad.gif

I'd hoped to be a tan lighter and I suppose with half the water and propane and just me in the cab I'll be about 12880 (minus the water etc plus me).

Not sure what else I can do to lower that a little but for now I'm going to go with it and see how things bear out. I may move to a dually next year depending on how I feel it does this year. So far though, I've driven in some heavy cross winds and it was fine.

No worries driving or breaking wise but I'm sure it's hard on the bearings etc.
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wintertree
post Apr 5 2018, 07:33 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,949
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Snowbird 108DS
Type of Tiedowns used: torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2016 F-450..upgraded overload springs...Torklift tie downs...single slide Hard wall camper with dry bath...solar...inverter...genset..full thermal package...extra black and grey tankage...kayak and paddle board



QUOTE(emcvay @ Apr 5 2018, 06:04 PM)
Just saw this.

My old Fleetwood Angler 9D had a dry weight of 1680lbs according to fleetwood.  I did not weigh the truck and camper but I'm very certain it was well under GVW as it had no options and even with 30 gallons of water (240lbs) and 5 gallons of propane (20lbs or so) it wouldn't come close to the slide in camper weight of 3370lbs much less the vehicle total GVW.

HOWEVER, I am now overweight.

I weighed today with full tanks and propane and 95% ready to roll out for the weekend.  I won't normally have full water (no need for that much!) and intend to use only one propane tank but that would only save me about 230lbs or so and not get me below GVW.

2010 Ford F350 SD PS 4x4 Crew Cab -- estimated weight (since I have yet to weight it without tailgate etc -- is 7900lbs
2019 Arctic Fox 990 -- dry weight 3600lbs (maybe but I'm guessing more wink.gif )

CAT Scales:
Front Axle -- 5200lbs
Rear Axle -- 7680lbs
Total -- 12880 lbs

I have Toyo 4080lb tires so I'm under what they can carry though it's been pointed out the wheels are only rated at 3750 (so 7500lbs) and I'm over that by 180lbs

Stable Loads (upper and lower) and air bags (at 18psi) and the truck sits level (actually level without the air bags at all but I like to have them to pump up the rear if needed for towing).

So I'm over by 1380lbs without driver and passenger sad.gif

I'd hoped to be a tan lighter and I suppose with half the water and propane and just me in the cab I'll be about 12880 (minus the water etc plus me).

Not sure what else I can do to lower that a little but for now I'm going to go with it and see how things bear out.  I may move to a dually next year depending on how I feel it does this year.  So far though, I've driven in some heavy cross winds and it was fine.

No worries driving or breaking wise but I'm sure it's hard on the bearings etc.
*


Having a dually would put more rubber on the road to share the overall weight.....you stability would be better as it makes sense you would have a wider stance.....more springs ? maybe....many 350 SRW units are "sprung "just like their dually cousins....so actually having more suspension may only be found with a special order unit....like a "Camper special....or Trailering Special" (if those options still exist)...The DRW unit will have a bigger GVW....but probably only based on the two extra wheels and tires....The Dually will be heavier so some of the benefits will be lost but you will still be on the plus side....brakes.....steering components....differential....transmission....all will be the same..maybe wheel bearings may be larger as the spindle / hubs will be for a dually (not sure)...
It should still provide a better / safer "platform"for your AF 990....
Only option if you want bigger parts...like brakes...diff etc....is a 450....but some of the gains made again are lost because of the weight of the beast un loaded..
I really like our 450 when the camper is on board.....as a non camper hauler its a beast that is uncomfortable.(ride quality)....the "G" tires are hard and follow every flaw in the road...(you must steer 10 and 2 ...LOL)....but loaded with the camper (my camper is the same # as your 990) it has good manners...
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RV_Tech
post Apr 6 2018, 01:48 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Given that the truck manufacturers do everything they can to make their ratings appear as high as possible and the camper manufacturers do everything they can to make their ratings appear unrealistically low, I still betting 90% of SRW TC owners will find themselves overweight on the scales if they weigh "ready to roll".

I think a perfect example of this is the Wolf Creek line which is targeted at 3/4 tons, but says in the fine print in the brochure duallies are the recommended haulers. Yep, you can check it out for yourself.

When ti comes to matching truck and campers, it is all smoke and mirrors if you do not put it on a scale.
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Jknight611
post Apr 7 2018, 06:50 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Northstar Adventurer 8.5
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2018 Chevolet 3500 Duramax Crew Duelly
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: Totally stock, nothing needed



Absolutely agree, I have brought my concerns here several times. But if ya don’t weigh it, it don’t count! When I did the math, I should have been under gross weight. Cat scale said I was overgross. The truck drove fine, etc. I decided to upgrade to a drw 3500, made a world of difference in how it drives. There was a discussion about being ticketed from being over weight. I have no concerns about that, most DOT employees could care less about a pickup truck. They are looking at the big guys (and should) My concern is an accident. If you are involved in a major accident with injuries the legal experts can easily prove you disregarded the manufacturer’s gross weight you will have problems. We all have worked hard to get to a position we can enjoy our lifestyle to loose out because of something so easily (yet expensive) remedy.
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RV_Tech
post Apr 7 2018, 08:41 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



I think most folks who claim to be within their ratings would be surprised if they took a trip to a CAT scale ready to run and I do not think manufacturers are naive to the situation. The harsh reality is there are almost no hard side campers that will not be overweight in a SRW truck even F350s like mine if equipped with routine options.

In my opinion, the efforts the manufacturers are making to expand into half-ton territory by alleging their models are within half-ton ratings are particularly disingenuous.

What this actually means for owners is for them to decide, but at some point we have to stop giving credence to weight claims that are not substantiated by CAT scale tickets. My position is if you do not have one, you do not know what your rig weighs, pure and simple.

I would further opine that TC manufacturers know that most owners are running over their truck's weight ratings, but will not address that issue head-on as they know it would result in a loss of sales.
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wintertree
post Apr 8 2018, 09:00 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 30-January 18
Member No.: 9,949
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Snowbird 108DS
Type of Tiedowns used: torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2016 F-450..upgraded overload springs...Torklift tie downs...single slide Hard wall camper with dry bath...solar...inverter...genset..full thermal package...extra black and grey tankage...kayak and paddle board



QUOTE(Jknight611 @ Apr 7 2018, 05:50 PM)
Absolutely agree,  I have brought my concerns here several times.  But if ya don’t weigh it, it don’t count!  When I did the math, I should have been under gross weight.  Cat scale said I was overgross.  The truck drove fine,  etc.  I decided to upgrade to a drw 3500, made a world of difference in how it drives.  There was a discussion about being ticketed from being over weight.  I have no concerns about that, most DOT employees could care less about a pickup truck.  They are looking at the big guys (and should) My concern is an accident.  If you are involved in a major accident with injuries the legal experts can easily prove you disregarded the manufacturer’s gross weight  you will have problems.  We all have worked hard to get to a position we can enjoy our lifestyle to loose out because of something so easily (yet expensive) remedy.
*


In regards to the DOT....here is what I have found thru the years with truck campers....The DOT is usually looking for gross over weight problems....I am from Canada and have been through a number of safety checks (roadside) in our travels....as I mentioned in a past post....I was asked to climb a portable scale at only one check stop....all others I lined up and was flagged through....In talking to a DOT officer at one of the stops he mentioned that if an individuals rig "looks" OK.....they are usually satisfied without further investigation....These guys are trained....no what to look for and I found that having a TC on a dually really goes a long way to having no issues with the DOT.... especially a modern well kept rig...
Its about doing your best....and thats not putting a big Hard wall camper with slide(s) on a SRW truck....
Now get into a crash ...possible injuries.....insurance company's on the hook for caring for damage to people and machinery.....quite likely the investigation will look at everything (down to the pound)
It reminds me of "Smoking"....There is loads of info out there about harmful it is....but
many still do it.....I guess they think nothing will happen to them.....
And by the way...we have all heard of the guy that lived to 100...smoked a pack a day
....LOL
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KyJoe340
post Apr 8 2018, 09:02 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,927
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2017 F250
Type of Tiedowns used: Torglift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2017 F250 4x4 Camper Package 18" rims



I have a 2017 F250 camper package 4X4 reg cab with a 2007 Lance 915. CAT scale loaded, wet, me, the wife and a full tank of gas 10,060.
GVWR 10.000. GAWR F/R 4,800 6,340. 18" tires 3,640 each.

CAT scale F/R 4,180 5,880

So I'm good on GAWR and tires but GVWR is right on the money. I have reduced 150lbs from these #'s with lithium battery and a different mattress. Also if I'm going somewhere that has water I don't travel with 35gals I just put in about 10.

I have Timbren jounce bumpers and Torklift bump stops for my overload springs. The truck handles great.
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RV_Tech
post Apr 9 2018, 12:55 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(KyJoe340 @ Apr 8 2018, 10:02 PM)
I have a 2017 F250 camper package 4X4 reg cab with a 2007 Lance 915. CAT scale loaded, wet, me, the wife and a full tank of gas 10,060.
GVWR 10.000. GAWR F/R  4,800  6,340.  18"  tires 3,640 each.

CAT scale F/R 4,180  5,880

So I'm good on GAWR and tires but GVWR is right on the money. I have reduced 150lbs from these #'s with lithium battery and a different mattress. Also if I'm going somewhere that has water I don't travel with 35gals I just put in about 10.

I have Timbren jounce bumpers and Torklift bump stops for my overload springs. The truck handles great.
*



Hey, thanks for posting in. It looks like a reg cab helps a lot. My extended cab is at 4,440 before we put the camper on it. I also have the big Fab Four front and rear bumpers that make the truck look like it would win a fight with an 18 wheeler. I know that adds weight. If they were not already on the truck when I got it, I probably would not have them.

The Lance brochure shows a dry weight without options of 2,439 for the 915. Packing the way we do, we would definitely be over with that camper on our truck. Our Hallmark dry without options has a factory listed weight of 1,643.

Our CAT scale F/R is 4,740, 6080 with a GVWR of 11,000. (That's with 30 gallons of fresh water). For options we have an AC, electric jacks, and an oven. I also have a Yamaha 2,000 genset on the rear bumper, but that is only 45 pounds. I am putting on a swing-away bike rack right now and a set of 24" Brophy steps so I am going to reweigh before we head out this week and try to see where all our weight is coming from.

I am using Super Springs instead of Timbren and upgraded my shocks to Fox, which helped reduce porposing.
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Jknight611
post Jul 22 2018, 01:13 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 8,785
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Northstar Adventurer 8.5
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2018 Chevolet 3500 Duramax Crew Duelly
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: Totally stock, nothing needed



We are currently traveling in BC with our Northstar Adventurer 8.5 on our 3500 dually 3500. I recently had a roadside inspection (very polite and cordial officer, some US Customs guys could take a few lessons!) anyway, when I produced a CAT scale weight certificate, the inspection was basically over with a cheery “Enjoy Canada and have a great trip”

My point is.... gross weight does matter before the accident!
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