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> Does that combination fit?, Dodge Ram + Timberline Truck camper

Saxophony
post Mar 14 2018, 11:04 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): timberline 11.5 ft 1999
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ram 2500
Type of Tiedowns used: torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: happijac



Hi Guys,

I finally found my dream set up! Unfortunately, how so often, my camper is probably
a bit too heavy for my truck.
My truckīs payload is at 2580 lbs (Dodge Ram 2500 from 2003), my camperīs wet weight is around 2400 lbs. That sounded great, but I know, you still have to calculate everything else within (food, all the books, spare gasoline, the passengers, ..), probably another 800 lbs. So Iīm far over..

What can I do to still haul my camper safely? (Pls dont tell me to sell any of both ..)
Which suspension support would you recommend for my truck? Any other tips

Furthermore, on my tires is written : max. load single 1450 kg. what does that mean? It also sais "load range d". I hope they are good enough for what I wanna do..

Thanks for your help guys,

Max
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RV_Tech
post Mar 15 2018, 06:47 AM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(Saxophony @ Mar 15 2018, 12:04 AM)
Hi Guys,

I finally found my dream set up! Unfortunately, how so often, my camper is probably
a bit too heavy for my truck.
My truckīs payload is at 2580 lbs (Dodge Ram 2500 from 2003), my camperīs wet weight is around 2400 lbs. That sounded great, but I know, you still have to calculate everything else within (food, all the books, spare gasoline, the passengers, ..), probably another 800 lbs. So Iīm far over..

What can I do to still haul my camper safely? (Pls dont tell me to sell any of both ..)
Which suspension support would you recommend for my truck? Any other tips

Furthermore, on my tires is written : max. load single 1450 kg. what does that mean? It also sais "load range d". I hope they are good enough for what I wanna do..

Thanks for your help guys,

Max
*



Okay, no lecture, you know no matter what you do you will be over your ratings. But don't forget the dry weight does not just exclude the stuff you add to the wet weight. It also does not include options and there is a point most folks miss. I ran the numbers just out of curiosity last night on a TC with a dry weight of 2,000 and there was still another 250 pounds you didn't pick up if you failed to add in the air conditioner, microwave, etc.

Secondly make sure you are using the weight sticker on your specific truck. There are nasty surprises in store for folks who rely on spec sheets and brochure numbers.

First, I would suggest first stop is to pull up your spec sheets and do a component by component comparison between your model and a one ton to get a sense of what the differences are. For example, folks get really caught up in axle specs, but the ratings for those components are often crazy high so unless you are hauling elephants, you are just not going to break them. They may well wear out more quickly, but they are not a likely failure point.

On the Fords there is a huge difference between 17" and 18" wheels and tires. At least E rated tires strike me as an absolute even if you do nothing else. A kg. translates to 2.2 pounds so your tires are rated to carry 3190. Wheels also have a weight rating, which you can find if you search.

Then you probably need to think in terms of air bags or something like Sumo springs to lend the suspension a hand.

Often folks seek an answer as to what the actual limiting factor is for their truck, but having searched long and hard I have never been able to find that factor for my own truck and, despite loads of discussion on the Internet, I don't think anyone else knows the answer for their truck either. On my F350, I have a 6,000 pound front axle, a 7,000 pound rear axle, a GVRW of 11,000, a payload capacity of 3,840 pounds, etc., etc.

The label on my camper (Hallmark Ute) says I have a dry weight of 1,643 pounds. When I scale my truck wet ready to head West the whole banana weighs 10,840 ( have the CAT scale slip in the event there are skeptics. That means I am within 160 pounds of my Gross limit fully loaded with my wife and our cat! ohmy.gif

Good luck
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 15 2018, 10:57 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



My only comment is, you can haul anything on anything but can you stop it in time or can you stop it at all?
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 15 2018, 11:14 AM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I see 'Timberline' (Lite Craft) built their last camper in 2010 and folded. In as much as the camper is at least 8 years old (maybe older), whatever the sticker says on it regarding actual weight is probably a fantasy from the get go and being at least 8 years old, I would be looking hard for water intrusion and internal rot (if the unit was stored outside. If it was kept inside, that should not be an issue.

Remember buying a 'bargain' camper usually turns out not to be a bargain in the end. Lots of bad things can lurk behind the walls...
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RV_Tech
post Mar 15 2018, 02:03 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Mar 15 2018, 11:57 AM)
My only comment is, you can haul anything on anything but can you stop it in time or can you stop it at all?
*




I didn't address stopping because I know of no way to improve on what comes with the truck when it is built. When you haul, you just got to live with whatever you do regarding stopping.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 15 2018, 05:21 PM
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Group: Members
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 15 2018, 02:03 PM)
I didn't address stopping because I know of no way to improve on what comes with the truck when it is built. When you haul, you just got to live with whatever you do regarding stopping.
*



Not exactly. You can upgrade your stopping power with drilled and slotted rotors and ceramic pads, stainless steel brake hoses and in the case of rear drums like I have, high friction synthetic shoes.

OEM will be solid (vented rotors), synthetic pads and rubber brake hoses.

But irregardless, overloaded is still harder to stop.

Said before, my benchmark of stopping is I can slide a 4 wheels with the camper in the bed. Don't want to, but I can if required.
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RV_Tech
post Mar 15 2018, 07:04 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Mar 15 2018, 06:21 PM)
Not exactly.  You can upgrade your stopping power with drilled and slotted rotors and ceramic pads, stainless  steel brake hoses and in the case of rear drums like I have, high friction synthetic shoes.

OEM will be solid (vented rotors), synthetic pads and rubber brake hoses.

But irregardless, overloaded is still harder to stop.

Said before, my benchmark of stopping is I can slide a 4 wheels with the camper in the bed.  Don't want to, but I can if required.
*



My ABS isn't going to slide.

But seriously, the thing about brakes and their effect is for a lot of the component upgrades they were really designed to reduce fade during hard use and the stopping distances can actually increase until they get hot. They work well for racing, but I am less sure of the value with isolated stops.

And in the end, if you have to rebuild the truck to get to where you want to be, I think most folks would be better off just starting with a bigger truck. smile.gif
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RV_Tech
post Mar 15 2018, 09:00 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Interesting when I started digging through the specs. The brake assemblies are the same for an F250 and F350.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 16 2018, 08:17 AM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 15 2018, 07:04 PM)
My ABS isn't going to slide.

But seriously, the thing about brakes and their effect is for a lot of the component upgrades they were really designed to reduce fade during hard use and the stopping distances can actually increase until they get hot. They work well for racing, but I am less sure of the value with isolated stops.

And in the end, if you have to rebuild the truck to get to where you want to be, I think most folks would be better off just starting with a bigger truck.  smile.gif
*



Not really either... Bigger truck = bigger payment, Mine is paid for = no payment.

Sooner or later everyone rebrakes, brakes are a consumable item. When you rebrake, take it up a notch... Same with brake hoses, they also have a finite life. take them up a notch to stainless braided lines.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 16 2018, 08:22 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 15 2018, 07:04 PM)
My ABS isn't going to slide.

But seriously, the thing about brakes and their effect is for a lot of the component upgrades they were really designed to reduce fade during hard use and the stopping distances can actually increase until they get hot. They work well for racing, but I am less sure of the value with isolated stops.

And in the end, if you have to rebuild the truck to get to where you want to be, I think most folks would be better off just starting with a bigger truck.  smile.gif
*



Not quire correct. Your ABS will pulse (and you'll feel it in the pedal) when you reach the threshold of traction. It's 'sliding' just a small amount. The Hall effect sensors in an ABS system sense wheel lockup and relieve the hydraulic pressure to allow that wheel (to rotate), that is how ABS functions. I prefer not to have it myself, which is a personal prefernece, just like TP monitors and idiot light in the dash.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 16 2018, 08:26 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 15 2018, 09:00 PM)
Interesting when I started digging through the specs. The brake assemblies are the same for an F250 and F350.
*



Only difference really between a '250' and a '350' is spring rates. Running gear is essentially the same. Been that way for years. Now, if you jump up to say a 450 or 550, running gear changes..

Only 'advantage in a 350 is spring rates (and the badge on the fender..... biggrin.gif )
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RV_Tech
post Mar 16 2018, 11:40 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Mar 16 2018, 09:26 AM)
Only difference really between a '250' and a '350' is spring rates.  Running gear is essentially the same.  Been that way for years.  Now, if you jump up to say a 450 or 550, running gear changes..

Only 'advantage in a 350 is spring rates (and the badge on the fender..... biggrin.gif )
*



See, that's my point sort of. We tell people not to do this or that, but the real world consequence is almost nil. I believe if folks felt like there was a real world reason not to do something far fewer folks would do it.

Having a pop-up I stay within my ratings pretty easily, but I seriously doubt anything bad would happen if I did not. I suspect there are many others that feel the same way. So no enforcement, no component failure, no increase in accidents. Why not put a triple slide on a half-ton, if it would fit (not serious with the example, just making the point)?
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 16 2018, 08:57 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 16 2018, 11:40 AM)
See, that's my point sort of. We tell people not to do this or that, but the real world consequence is almost nil. I believe if folks felt like there was a real world reason not to do something far fewer folks would do it.

Having a pop-up I stay within my ratings pretty easily, but I seriously doubt anything bad would happen if I did not. I suspect there are many others that feel the same way. So no enforcement, no component failure, no increase in accidents. Why not put a triple slide on a half-ton, if it would fit (not serious with the example, just making the point)?
*



Because at some point (not determined) it will impact components negatively. Things like wheel bearings and brakes and driveline components fail sooner.

I'm like you though, I run a 1 ton srw with a pop up so I don't have a weight issue. For years I hauled a Lance hard side around and put everything in it but the 'kitchen sink' and the truck is still chugging along but I will say I've replaced a lot of components before their time because of the weight I had in the box.

Believe me, there was no way I could lock my wheels up with the Lance in the bed. plus my fuel mileage suffered. That is all gone now. I drop maybe 1-2 mpg with the pop up, no sway in the wind and it stops, right now. A much more 'in control feeling.

They aren't for everyone but for me (and obviously you), they work fine.

Being a retired machinery and steel hauler, I know all about running HEAVY, I mean real heavy and more than once I was in situations where my brakes were less than marginal and a high Cg load was tippy. Been there and did all that, probably why I prefer the pop up. For me and my wife (no cat), it's fine.

If I was a weigh cop, I'd stop every TC I saw and weigh them and compare their GVW to the door sticker and then fine them accordingly. I could go through some citation books, Probably do the same with pull behinds but I'd have to crawl under and see what the axles were rated for..... biggrin.gif

RV'ers in general tend to overload. Not because they are ignorant, because they don't do the math to figure out what they can actually haul down the road legally.

If you care to go look, there is actually a table in the FMVSS manual that states axle loads in relationship to tire width and off the top of my hat I cannot remember what the load factor is but using that formula, there are a ton of RV's out there that are grossly overloaded.

I've heard that in BC (Canada) they will actually weigh truck campers and compare the GVW to the door sticker and fine accordingly. Not sure if that is true, just what I heard.
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RV_Tech
post Mar 16 2018, 09:03 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Mar 16 2018, 09:57 PM)
Because at some point (not determined) it will impact components negatively.  Things like wheel bearings and brakes and driveline components fail sooner.

I'm like you though, I run a 1 ton srw with a pop up so I don't have a weight issue.  For years I hauled a Lance hard side around and put everything in it but the 'kitchen sink' and the truck is still chugging along but I will say I've replaced a lot of components before their time because of the weight I had in the box.

Believe me, there was no way I could lock my wheels up with the Lance in the bed. plus my fuel mileage suffered.  That is all gone now.  I drop maybe 1-2 mpg with the pop up, no sway in the wind and it stops, right now.  A much more 'in control feeling.

They aren't for everyone but for me (and obviously you), they work fine.

Being a retired machinery and steel hauler, I know all about running HEAVY, I mean real heavy and more than once I was in situations where my brakes were less than marginal and a high Cg load was tippy.  Been there and did all that, probably why I prefer the pop up.  For me and my wife (no cat), it's fine.
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RV_Tech
post Mar 16 2018, 09:03 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



You need a cat to balance the COG. smile.gif
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 16 2018, 09:10 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Mar 16 2018, 09:03 PM)
You need a cat to balance the COG. smile.gif
*



I think (at last count) we had around 40 here at the farm. I know we have 10 in the house and as a matter of fact, there is a marmalade tiger sitting next to the computer right now. Cat hair is a way of life around here... biggrin.gif

Why the camper stays catless.
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