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> Camper concerns, Lack of Quality

Freespool
post Nov 3 2016, 05:23 PM
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Group: Members
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



I am so disappointed with what gets the approved check from the QC guys in todays RV's. That being said, I am sure many look good in the beginning but soon, far too many simply fall apart. I just refused a brand new popular model because of quality issue's. I am now looking at the Mammoth and the Everest made by Host. These products both will cost in access of 50K. Take a look at this 9 year old model that still cost over 27K. Go to Host, then go to dealers and click on All Season RV. Look at the second model. This camper is only 9 years old. Now I must say, I have no idea how it was taken care of but look at the delamb issue's that are clearly visible. I am quickly running out of choices.
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SidecarFlip
post Nov 5 2016, 08:22 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



If you want quality and don't mine paying for it, 4 seasons and Alaskan is what you want or buy an old Avion and restore it.

The problem with the RV industry is other than RVIA, there is no regulatory body so every manufacturer sets their own quality standards and a lot aren't very high and that includes all RV's not just truck campers...

It's not about build quality, it's about making the most profit. That was my main impetus in purchasing a Forest River Palomino. Palomino RV was a schlock manufacturer until Warren Buffet bought them and instituted some semblance of quality control in manufacture. Now, Palomino is up there with medium priced units in build quality and attention to detail. It's not an Alaskan but it's still a dam sight better than it was 5 years ago. Case in point, Palomino canned their 2 piece always leaking door for a one piece door and quit offering an aluminum skinned unit. Aluminum skinned campers are chronic leakers because of the seams in the skin. Palomino now only offers their units in one piece sheathed gloss coat FRP with a one piece aluminum skinned roof. No maintenance (other than edge seals and an infrequent waxing) and long life.

Keep in mind that a 'rubber roof' must be maintained and reskinned at some point. The membrane deteriorates from the UV rays of the sun and most people store their units outside (I don't). Aluminum is basically forever.

Back in the day, you'd find vinyl moulding inside, between cabinets and the structure, to cover misalignment (poor workmanship). That is all gone now. Fitment is tight and alignment is excellent, no vinyl moldings, a testament to quality control....Thanks Warren....

Take Lance, supposedly the 'Caddilac' of campers. Lance has been plagued with water issues for years and delamination is commonplace in their units. Poor quality control and lack of attention to detail in assembly. Lance puts profit over quality in build. That is a bad ethic.

IMO, all new truck campers are seriously overpriced, so I did extensive research concerning the biggest 'bang for the buck' and bought a Palomino.

I had a Lance (was my first camper and I bought it new, so I'm aware of their shortfalls.

If I had a large wallet (I'm retired) I would have bought an Alaskan and spec'd it out to my exact needs.

Keep in mind that no matter what brand you buy, they all use the same appliances (Dometic, Atwood, Norcold, Suburban and other sub contract manufacturers) so ot comes down to structure and build quality verses asking price.

Myself, I'm not interested in slideouts, fancy electric awnings and fru-fru that fails down the road and costs a bundle to replace, I want a basic camper to go camping with. If I wanted all the amenities, I'd just stay home.

The term 'camping' has been lost. Now it's all about luxury, big screen TV's, climate control, remote controlled jacks, on board laundry, bathtubs...all things I consider not necessary to go 'camping'.
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Freespool
post Nov 5 2016, 11:39 AM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 8,975
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



You make some good points and it sounds like our taste are not to far apart. My main problem is I love space. The Alaskan is just to small for me and if I remember it's also a pop top. I would never consider a pop top. The Northstar 12 foot unit appears to be very well made but it's only 93" wide and has no slide, again to small. I think we both like and understand the advantages of one piece fiberglass walls, the problem continues to be delamination. Once this occurs the product is history. Funny thing is my tin side 13 year travel trailer has never leaked or delaminated, sometimes change is bad. My 25 year old Foretravel motor home had fiberglass walls with gel coat and never had a exterior problem so I no this type of construction can be built. I guess I wish Airstream made a truck camper, as far as I am concerned they are one of the last rv's that still is built to last, rather than just make a profit for the builder.
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SidecarFlip
post Nov 7 2016, 04:16 PM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded





I must have a popup. I have clearance issues in the woods, I always boondock, always and a solid side camper is way too tall. The Alaskan is a popup but the top is solid and telescopes down over the lower section.

I like space as well.. I prefer outside space however. My camper is about having a place to sleep, cook and in my wife's case to go potty. I go camping to be outside, not in a camper and no matter how big a truck camper is, it's still tiny compared to a TT of 5er.

Big is heavy. Tall is wind resistsance and bad handling. I own plenty of truck but why haul around a large anchor of a camper. The camper is about a roof from the rain and sleeping without being dinner for skeeters and cooking and thats about it.

Far as quality, they all have issues. Some are easier to deal with than others.
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Freespool
post Nov 7 2016, 06:05 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 8,975
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



Thanks for the dialog, it makes the board so much more fun. Our needs are simply different. I have no concerns about clearance of any kind, I new only a large camper would work for me. This is why I bought a big truck with a diesel. I bought the truck strictly to be used for camping and towing my boat. I drive the speed limit and along with the huge torque the motor makes the mileage barely changes. I own a large travel trailer with a great layout, the problem is I can't bring my boat when I bring the trailer. This is the only reason I thought the truck camper would work for me. The problem I am having is cost and quality related. Even the 50 and 60 grand campers are loaded with problems. I just passed on a bran new 31K camper because of quality. This single issue may very well keep me from buying a truck camper. I may be forced to retain my class 1 licence and sell my pull trailer in order to buy a 5th wheel, at least then I could pull both trailers. I know there are several 25-28 foot 5th wheel trailers that will meet by quality expectations. There cost is about the same but the space they provide dwarfs even the triple slides. The quality issue will be my top priority and determine which way I go.
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Dr Dee
post Nov 17 2016, 07:31 PM
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Group: Members
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance & Host
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford f350 4x4 Dually
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijac
Truck and Camper Setup: Lance 1191 Titan V hitch Air bags Super springs



QUOTE(Freespool @ Nov 3 2016, 05:23 PM)
I am so disappointed with what gets the approved check from the QC guys in todays RV's.  That being said, I am sure many look good in the beginning but soon,  far too many simply fall apart.  I just refused a brand new popular model because of quality issue's.  I am now looking at the Mammoth and the Everest made by Host.  These products both will cost in access of 50K.  Take a look at this 9 year old model that still cost over 27K.  Go to Host, then go to dealers and click on All Season RV.  Look at the second model.  This camper is only 9 years old.  Now I must say, I have no idea how it was taken care of but look at the delamb issue's that are clearly visible.  I am quickly running out of choices.
*



I have an eye for quality and I have noticed that the travel trailers and fith wheels have some of the worst QC in the industry with motorhomes being second. On the other hand, the Campers that I have looked at and owned seem to be head and shoulders above the rest. As a matter of fact I don't begin to see quality in a Fithwheel until I look at units over 100k. Motorhomes over 200k.
Truck campers have to be built to more rigid standards just to be able to ride in the back of a pickup truck for they have No suspension of their own and we all know what the rear suspension of a pickup truck is like.
I was at an RV show recently and was appalled at the poor quality that I saw in many travel trailers, fivers and motorhomes.
I think Lance does a great job with their Campers and I recently looked at a Host and was very impressed. Artic Fox does a good job also. On the other hand I spent some time in a Eagle Cap and was disappointed. I have had my Lance for eight years now and I have been happy with the unit, the service and the support I have received from the factory. I'm looking to upgrade in the near future and I have been exploring all options. Motorhomes, fivers, travel trailers, and truck campers. I too, pull a boat and I like the idea of being able to go anywhere my truck goes. So my thoughts always seems to come back to the truck camper.
So all in all I guess the bottom line is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Final thought, I wish these manufacturers would step up their game and offer longer warranties. It's ridiculous to spend the kind of money they're asking to only get a one year bumper to bumper warranty. Some manufacturers offer a little longer warranty but most do not. This needs to change!
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SidecarFlip
post Nov 23 2016, 08:44 PM
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I frequent the Forest River forum and there are always posts about poor quality, from doors falling off to screws run through plumbing lines at the factory to windows installed backwards to axles being loose...all kinds of things that are QC that are overlooked. Then after a year of ownership comes the water leaks, rotting wood and delamination.

Not good.

Very few TC's on that forum, interestingly, in as much as FR owns Palomino.

I looked at TC's pretty hard before I bought my new one last year, having owned a Lance and experienced it's issues. The Palomino ticks all my boxes far as utility and quality build goes, so I bought one and I've had no issues whatsoever, with anything.

Fit, finish, alignment of components and user convenience rate high on this unit in my opinion, plus it wasn't 30 grand.

My only gripe (if you want to call it that) is the lack of tank level indicators which I'll address with a Seelevel system and only one house battery which I'll also address this winter.... and knee wall access doors, for some strange reason, Palomino don't factory install them. I'll address that as well.

I too have a big diesel pickup truck with plenty of ponies (Full Banks Kit) so hauling any camper built isn't an issue for me. I can haul a double slide with on board genny if I wanted to. I don't. require a low overall clearance unit and I want to be as light and have as low as Cg as possible, something you would understand if you were negotiating seasonal roads in off camber situations like I do.

The higher the camper and the more stuff thats mounted high like roof AC and high mounted microwaves and fridges, increase the Cg and roll point and contribute to bad handling off toad, things I don't want to deal with.

I don't stay in campgrounds on gravel pads. I camp in the woods, usually in uneven ground. No hookups, no water spigot, nothing.

I hauled my Lance all over the country in all kinds of conditions and I know what a tall camper feels like and how it handles.
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Murdog
post Nov 28 2016, 04:13 PM
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Member No.: 9,285
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Northern Lite
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2013 Ford F250 Diesel 4x4 crew cab
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: Ford F-250 Diesel 10,000 GVWR. modifications include; Extra Large rear sway bar, air bags, stable loads, Rancho 9000 adjustable shocks.



QUOTE(Freespool @ Nov 3 2016, 06:23 PM)
I am so disappointed with what gets the approved check from the QC guys in todays RV's.  That being said, I am sure many look good in the beginning but soon,  far too many simply fall apart.  I just refused a brand new popular model because of quality issue's.  I am now looking at the Mammoth and the Everest made by Host.  These products both will cost in access of 50K.  Take a look at this 9 year old model that still cost over 27K.  Go to Host, then go to dealers and click on All Season RV.  Look at the second model.  This camper is only 9 years old.  Now I must say, I have no idea how it was taken care of but look at the delamb issue's that are clearly visible.  I am quickly running out of choices.
*


Take a look at Northern Lite campers. I have a keen eye for build quality, I've owned two other RV's before our current Northern Lite and while the Northern Lite is not without issues, it's way better than most others in terms of fitment and quality....certainly better than any Lance's I've looked at. Personally I think Lance's are the Chevy of truck campers not the Cadillac. Our Northern Lite so far has 15 thousand miles and 70 nights of camping....and it's been awesome.
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Freespool
post Nov 29 2016, 07:14 PM
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 167
Joined: 2-June 16
Member No.: 8,975
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



Thanks for the input guys. I agree with you Murdog, the Northern Light looks well made, maybe it's a Canadian thing. I remember shopping for a nice formal dining table with chairs and the one I like most was also built in Canada. The problem I have with Northstar's, Northern Lights and Bigfoots is space. Without at least one slide, two or three would be much better there is simply not enough room for my needs. The Host seems to address all of my needs, however the cost is so ridiculous I don't feel good about ordering one.
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Boulderutah
post Jan 5 2017, 10:39 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,345
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Cirrus 820
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford 250 4x4 6.7 diesel 2016
Type of Tiedowns used: Torquelift w/derringer fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: F250 2016, airbags, torquelift stable loads, Cirrus 820 camper



QUOTE(Freespool @ Nov 29 2016, 07:14 PM)
Thanks for the input guys.  I agree with you Murdog, the Northern Light looks well made, maybe it's a Canadian thing.  I remember shopping for a nice formal dining table with chairs and the one I like most was also built in Canada.  The problem I have with Northstar's, Northern Lights and Bigfoots is space.  Without at least one slide, two or three would be much better there is simply not enough room for  my needs.  The Host seems to address all of my needs, however the cost is so ridiculous I don't feel good about ordering one.
*



Bought a new Cirrus 820 this fall after looking at quality and comparing against price. Love the radiant heat, 4 season capability and quality cabinetry, etc etc. I live in the outback, so tents, then a rugged popup, now this Cirrus to keep the wife on board. But very impressed with the quality.
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 7 2017, 09:40 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



What I find interesting is. truck beds are getting shorter, engines are getting smaller and truck campers are getting HEAVIER.

The Cirrus is a tank weight wise. Good luck with that.
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 8 2017, 11:41 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I don't ever see overall quality improving much past the point where it's at today in cookie cutter campers simply because the industry mantra is about the best profit with the least expense.

Why would any builder offer an extended warranty when they know down the road (pun intended) that components will fail.

The other issue I see (from reading various forums) is that buyers, for the most part, haven't a clue about how to maintain or even do simple repairs. I read more stupid posts from ignorant owners than I care to read.

At least TC'ers have a bit of common sense, the rest of the RV crowd is basically clueless.

The one thing that bothers me with TC'ers is most want a TT or 5er interior and all the luxury stuff which equates to a tank camper and then they want to haul it in s short bed 1/2 ton truck. I don't get that. Overbuy the truck and drivetrain FIRST, then get a camper based on the capacity of the truck and not your fantasy capacity.

Overloading a truck with an overweight camper contributes to bad handling and poor stopping and shorter component life.

Trucks are getting shorter (bed) and smaller engines and campers are getting bigger and heavier. The way I see that, it's a bad mix.
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Freespool
post Jan 8 2017, 04:46 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 8,975
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



I agree with most of your observations SidecarFlip. The all mighty dollar and the endless pursuit of profit will unfortunately take priority over building quality products. The Amish are probably last people who still believe in workmanship. With that being said I will acknowledge that there are a few T/C builders who try, unfortunately more often than not these are also the builders who don't believe in basements or slides. I need both plus a high quality product along with a price that makes since. So far, I have not seen a camper that meets all of my needs. Switching gears to your truck observations I am happy to say I think that trucks in general have gotten much better. There will always be a market for short beds, they just look cool, however there short comings are obvious. I think truck engines have gone in both directions. Today's truck buyers are a lucky group, everything from 4 cylinder diesels that get 30 mpg to monster trucks with 900 plus pounds of torque and over 400HP are available. The weight issue is where there is potential problems. Truck campers have grown in size and weight over the years and truck manufacturers have not properly built trucks to handle the weight. I think this is the markets fault, truck campers make up a small percentage of the RV industry. Most people want to pull, not carry there RV. This is why we see 3/4 ton trucks pulling 32' trailers with relative ease. Most of us know the same truck will struggle with just a mid size camper. The simple solution is to go back and reintroduce the camper or trailer special like Ford did in the past. Camper special trucks would be much different than there counter parts. To bad this will probably never happen simply because the camper market is so small. Prioritizing profit sounds good to the stock holders but not so much for the consumers.
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Rider99
post Jan 10 2017, 03:55 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Dodge one ton
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: Dodge 3500, Lance 995, Torklift and fast gun



I consider my self very lucky after reading this. I am on my fourth Lance truck camper and have never experienced a quality problem with the exception of a minor exterior water drip. From the early 80's to currently a new '16 Lance 995. Also had a Alpenlite for about 18 months, nice camper. Spent a great deal of time looking at everything available and decided on another Lance. My experience with Class A motorhomes is just the opposite.....horrible build quality, customer service and a very expensive lesson I learned. Can't seem to find any fault with Lance quality control and customer service.
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Freespool
post Jan 10 2017, 05:54 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



Congratulations Rider99, I love to hear about happy experiences. I really think it's the luck of the draw, unfortunately my luck sucks. The only RV's I have ever done ok with are trailers. My motor home had some redeeming values but mostly it was repair bills. I have already had one name brand T/C that was a lemon. I love the 1172 with it's user friendly layout but I hate the slide assembly on the rear slide and the fridge on the slide. Lance cabinets don't use face frames, WHY? Plus I really don't feel it's worth 43K.
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 11 2017, 02:22 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I have a 918 Lance sitting in the side yard I'll sell cheap.... Needs a board for the Norcold and a couple vent overs. I'ts loaded. It's heavy too.
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 11 2017, 07:44 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(Freespool @ Jan 8 2017, 04:46 PM)
I agree with most of your observations SidecarFlip.  The all mighty dollar and the endless pursuit of profit will unfortunately take priority over building quality products.  The Amish are probably last people who still believe in workmanship. With that being said I will acknowledge that there are a few T/C builders who try, unfortunately more often than not these are also the builders who don't believe in basements or slides.  I need both plus a high quality product along with a price that makes since.  So far, I have not seen a camper that meets all of my needs.  Switching gears to your truck observations I am happy to say I think that trucks in general have gotten much better.  There will always be a market for short beds, they just look cool, however there short comings are obvious.  I think truck engines have gone in both directions.  Today's truck buyers are a lucky group, everything from 4 cylinder diesels that get 30 mpg to monster trucks with 900 plus pounds of torque and over 400HP are available.  The weight issue is where there is potential problems.  Truck campers have grown in size and weight over the years and truck manufacturers have not properly built trucks to handle the weight.  I think this is the markets fault, truck campers make up a small percentage of the RV industry.  Most people want to pull, not carry there RV.  This is why we see 3/4 ton trucks pulling 32' trailers with relative ease.  Most of us know the same truck will struggle with just a mid size camper.  The simple solution is to go back and reintroduce the camper or trailer special like Ford did in the past.  Camper special trucks would be much different than there counter parts.  To bad this will probably never happen simply because the camper market is so small.  Prioritizing profit sounds good to the stock holders but not so much for the consumers.
*



Could have fooled me on that. I just posted about that very same false assumption on the Forest River forum. That is a very false assumption on anyone's part, perpetuated by good PR and nothing more.

The Amish working in any RV plant are no different than their gentile counterparts. Same attitude, same work ethic. They may be craftsmen in their mom and pop shops, but in a factory churning out RV's, never.

Quality in the end product distills down to management and their attitude toward profit, production and the employees, Amish or not come in dead last.

You can dwell on that fantasy but it reality it is just that.

I live close enough to Elkhart, Goshen and Colon, Michigan, that I can take an afternoon and drop in and I have, more than once so I can observe attitudes and worker bees in the floor and candidly, I've never seen one Amish wotker being more attentive than their gentile counterpart.

Pretty easy to pick them out, the men have beards and the women wear bonnets.
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towpro
post Jan 12 2017, 07:26 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 15 Ram 3500 Dually 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2016 Arctic Fox 990



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Jan 11 2017, 07:44 PM)
Could have fooled me on that.  I just posted about that very same false assumption on the Forest River forum.  That is a very false assumption on anyone's part, perpetuated by good PR and nothing more.

The Amish working in any RV plant are no different than their gentile counterparts.  Same attitude, same work ethic.  They may be craftsmen in their mom and pop shops, but in a factory churning out RV's, never.

Quality in the end product distills down to management and their attitude toward profit, production and the employees, Amish or not come in dead last.

You can dwell on that fantasy but it reality it is just that.

I live close enough to Elkhart, Goshen and Colon, Michigan, that I can take an afternoon and drop in and I have, more than once so I can observe attitudes and worker bees in the floor and candidly, I've never seen one Amish wotker being more attentive than their gentile counterpart.

Pretty easy to pick them out, the men have beards and the women wear bonnets.
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I agree 100%
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Freespool
post Jan 12 2017, 05:43 PM
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I can live with that opinion. Let's face it, when even a skilled craftsman has no time to properly complete the task eventually quality will suffer. I also agree management plays an important part of the whole production cycle. Wages are an additional component, I am sure the people who build Stickley home furnishings don't make 10 bucks an hour.
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 14 2017, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE(Freespool @ Jan 12 2017, 05:43 PM)
I can live with that opinion.  Let's face it, when even a skilled craftsman has no time to properly complete the task eventually quality will suffer.  I also agree management plays an important part of the whole production cycle.  Wages are an additional component, I am sure the people who build Stickley home furnishings don't make 10 bucks an hour.
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Not sure who Stickley is but I bet the factory rats make at least minimum wage and have bene's of some sort.

Lippert is a good example. They build frames for mobile homes, 5ers and TT's. They hire welders at minimum wage, no experience necessary, not that you need experience to operate a glue gun (MIG) but the lack of quality shows through, Lippert frames crack.

The RV industry as a whole as it pertains to new builds and new components is all about maximum profit with minimal input, across the board. Very few exceptions to that.

I can think of 2, Prevost and 4 Wheel Campers. Both offer a multi years base warranty and stand 100% behind their products... That multi-year warranty is telling. Problem is, both cost substantially more than their competition.

Most people I see that are buying an RV want a 'deal'. If you want a deal, expect to have issues. Deals never come without a price in the end.

When I bought mine last year, I got a 'deal'. I didn't ask for one, nor did I shop price, I did however get one and I fully expected to play 'handyman' down the road and to my surprise, that hasn't happened. I've had to fix nothing. Modify, yes but I modify everything to suit my personal preferences.
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