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> Roof Leak ?, What's Happened to my Camper

Nobody
post Aug 7 2017, 03:59 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Palomino
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: '99 Ford F-250 SuperCab long bed, 7.3L Power Stroke
Type of Tiedowns used: Blackstone Mfg Co Camper Clampers, looking for TorkLift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2003 SunLite 8.5 WTSB, modified roof lift to support roof air



Hi All. I recently had a problem with a 'leak' in my truck camper. It is a 2003 8.5' SunLite Eagle WT SP pop-up type. It has a toilet & small holding tank but no internal shower or water heater (has a cold water outside shower). Recently while sitting on the truck in closed position (top down) we had some very heavy rain. I checked the camper one day while in there & discovered a puddle of water on top of the left rear cabinet/closet, between the sink & the cooktop, & between the refrigerator & the lift mechanism, all on left side of the camper. No apparent damage to the formica cabinet tops. As soon as the weather cleared I raised to top to see if I could find where the leak was located. I couldn't find any leak but there was water all along the fiberglass screen, the transparent vinyl window, and one of the hollow galvanized lifting rods which are part of the 'rack & pinion' lift mechanism. I cannot find any leak anywhere in or on the roof including the roof vent & in or around the AC. When I raised the roof water ran all along the screen & the vinyl window, and along the galvanized lift rod. It appeared the water had gotten under the roof & had leaked through the zipper which closes the vinyl window. The roof appeared to be closed tightly and apparently had a waterproof seal. The roof unit has a 'suspended' cabinet on each side of the camper that 'hangs' down when the roof is in the up/down position. Only thing I can figure is that I didn't make sure the seal at the bottom of the roof 'lined up' correctly & the last time I lowered the roof & 'tucked' in the vinyl & the canvas that comprise the upper part of the wall. Perhaps I allowed a bit of the canvas or vinyl to intrude between the seal & the upper wall of the camper. I've used pop-up type campers for many years & never had this happen before. Next time I'll make sure the seal is making good contact all the way around. Anyone here with one of these type campers ever had an experience such as this? Any & all suggestions appreciated and will be applied, as this is a new one on me... The previous owner (& a friend) had modified the 'rack & pinion' lift system when they added the AC (the lift system had stripped the aluminum 'racks' & they replaced it with 3/4" 'square top all thread', threaded shackles & an outside access to the 'all thread', which is on the right side of the camper just in front of the dinette window. It is a very professional installation, just slow when turning the all thread without a cordless drill. The mechanical Reico-Titan corner jacks are also slow operating without the drill. Perhaps I did not insure that the drill 'pulled' to roof down securely?
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 9 2017, 11:27 AM
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Mine has a rubber lip seal all the way around the outer-inner edge and I always make doubly sure the canvas is tucked behind the lip seal when lowering the top.

I also always use the Fantastic Fan to create a vacuum in the camper when I'm lowering the top and I attach small bungee cords to the side curtains to help pull them in (just like 4 Wheel Camper does with their tops. Between the fan, the bungee cords and me tucking it in (when it's almost lowered all the way down, I seem to get it sealed up well.

I'd say you had some canvas over the lip instead of behind it...
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Nobody
post Aug 10 2017, 12:34 PM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 5-November 12
Member No.: 6,339
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Palomino
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: '99 Ford F-250 SuperCab long bed, 7.3L Power Stroke
Type of Tiedowns used: Blackstone Mfg Co Camper Clampers, looking for TorkLift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2003 SunLite 8.5 WTSB, modified roof lift to support roof air



I think you may be right Flip. The last time I lowered the roof, it looked as if it was going to rain & I was in a hurry. I probably left a tiny portion of the canvas 'over' th seal instead of on the inside as it should be. Years ago I devised a PVC 'tool' to use for 'tucking' in the canvas & if you don't use it 'just right' it'll leave a small corner in the wrong place. My brother-in-law from whom I bought my first 'Skamper' pop-up, used a broom to 'tuck in' the canvas. My PVC tool does a better job but you hafta handle it right. Also, I've noticed the overhead cabinets on either side that 'hang' from the roof can interfere with the windows & the fabric if not 'tucked' in just right. Next time I lower the roof assembly I'll make sure everything is in its correct place... I always lower the roof about half way down & tuck everything in & lower it the rest of the way. Has never failed me 'til now & I'll know better in the future. I'd thought maybe the 'all thread' assembly had let something 'slip' but after careful examination I've discounted that theory. It is a marvel of engineering & works beautifully.
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 10 2017, 10:19 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I just put mine up in the backyard this evening and I noticed at the back on the drivers side (when looking up under the overhang, that I didn't get the tent all the way in. We haven't had any rain for a while now (need some) and I told Amy, if I raise the roof, it will rain, so I did....

I lower mine with the Fantastic fan on, sucking the tent in but I still need to go around the outside and check. I must have missed that spot.

I lower mine down until the top is about 2" off the upper sill, just enough room for me to bet my fingers in and tuck in the tent.

On mine, the issue is where the Reico-Titan roof lift bars are, in the front. That is where the room for tucking is limited,

What really helped was copying the Four Wheel Camper idea of adding bungee cords across the window zippers to pull the tent in. That really helps, especially when I do the lowering myself which is the usual case.

Once it's down and latched, I remove the bungee cords. The new style Palomino, you can actually use the camper, access the fridge and sink without raising the roof. You cannot use the upper berth of course but you can sit in the dinette.

I too, need to be a bit more cognizant when lowering my roof. I must have gotten in a hurry last time and I bet if we had had rain, I would have gotten some inside as well.

I had a heck of a time figuring out an easy way of getting in and out of the unit when it's on the truck. My truck sits real high, it's 6" over stock and a 4x4. My bed height is 37" from the ground, making getting in and out a real ball buster. My wife was almost not able to get in and out scared her (using s step ladder (which was a royal PITA to carry along.

Anyway, I posted my dilemma on another forum and Torklift contacted me about doing a prototype install of their Revolution Glo Steps. I could not refuse.

The issue was, the Revolution Glo Steps mount with a formed aluminum bracket that requires a 4" clear mounting area. My Palomino has maybe 2" below the door sill.

What I did (and not only Torklift but Forest River) has the pictures and how I did it, I removed the entire rear under camper cross stiffener, welded an angle bracket to it, drilling and tapping it for the mounting plate for the steps and then remounting the stiffener with the weldment attached and bolting on the step bracket, which I insulated from the steel weldment with hard nylon spacers and used stainless mounting bolts.

What I have is a really neat set of very deployable steps that can stay on the camper all the time as the Glo Steps are self storing. You collapse them tight and secure them with 2 rubber straps. They are very nice and even have adjustable feet on the bottom to adapt for uneven terrain and, I requested them in black to match my camper trim and they came in black. They look really sharp and work flawlessly.

With the swing out door handle, getting in and out is easy as pie and folding the steps for transport takes all of 10 seconds. Think I need to send you some pictures. TL has them and so does TCM.

My suggestion to TL was for FR to pre-punch and spot weld on nut serts to mount a bracker so owners could get the steps and make it a plug and play install. I would not expect an owner to disassemble their new camper to add the step kit or to do the welding necessary. I did and it came out better than I anticipated.

I've been busy....
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Nobody
post Aug 15 2017, 07:16 PM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 5-November 12
Member No.: 6,339
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Palomino
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: '99 Ford F-250 SuperCab long bed, 7.3L Power Stroke
Type of Tiedowns used: Blackstone Mfg Co Camper Clampers, looking for TorkLift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2003 SunLite 8.5 WTSB, modified roof lift to support roof air



Thanks Flip. You've given me some ideas for making sure my top is sealed when I lower the roof. The 'tool' I devised when I first bought the Skamper is just a 4' long piece of 1" Schedule 40 PVC with a 'T' at one end & 'caps' on the 'raw' ends. Didn't even put adhesive on the joint as it's pretty tight 'dry fitted.' I usually stop when the roof assembly is between 6 & 12" & tuck in all the loose canvas/vinyl. I may get a little closer from now on. As long as none of the sidewall 'fabric' is across the seal it can't leak. I'll just make doubly sure it don't cross the seal from now on. The new all thread lift system works great using my 18V DeWalt drill. Ya just gotta be sure you have a freshly charged battery, or at least the generator & charger. My camper required approx 2" for the Brophy Scissors steps I ordered from etrailer. Some previous owner had installed 'treated' 2x4s lengthwise under the bottom so I just took a piece of treated yellow pine, & fastened it to the lengthwise 2x4s using1/4" x 3 1/2" lag screws then added the steps 'hanger bar' & since my steps don't remain in place for travel I just fold 'em up & slip 'em inside the back door. I also bought a hand rail to attach to the side of the steps & to the camper. My wife is much more comfortable using the steps with the rail than without. Truth be told, so am I wink.gif .
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 15 2017, 10:59 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I'm fiddling with mine right now. I'd like to leave the steps attached all the time, but they block my license tag so I bought a metal plate holder that I'm going to mount somewhere, possibly to the stiffener than the angle is welded to. I'm just worried that I'll be stopped because the plate isn't readily visible. The camper has no provision for a plate. Thinking cap on for that.

Took my truck in and had the recalls done..finally, after 6 years. The 7.3's have an issue with the cruise control kick off switch that is mounted on the front of the power brake booster. It's prone to leaking (even though mine never has because I check it regularly). The switch is always hot (even with the key and ignition off and if the switch seal leaks, brake fluid gets up in the top of the switch, bridges the contacts and sets the brake fluid on fire, burning the truck up. The recall replaces the sub harness withe a double fused harness so if the switch fails, the fuse's break the circuit and no fire.

The switch is easy to replace but involves bleeding the master cylinder of air. That and the CPS sensor which I had already ungraded to the grey one from the black one and I carry a spare sensor, 10mm deep well socket and ratchet with me if it fails. Easy to replace too, One bolt and the sensor comes out of the block, just above the oil pan next to the harmonic balancer.

Easy to tell if your 7.3 has been changed out (cruise control kickoff). The replacement harness has 2 inline fuses in it and a blue tag attached and it's right there in the open, under the master cylinder casting.
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RV_Tech
post Aug 17 2017, 01:37 PM
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Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



I know I am kind of late to the party on this, but found on my Hallmark that the top can shift slightly to one side or the other, if the truck is not perfectly level when I close the roof.

Steve
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 19 2017, 01:07 PM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I guess Hallmaek don't use alignment wedges like my Palomino has. When I lower my top, the alignment wedges on the upper sill, align the top when closed.
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RV_Tech
post Aug 19 2017, 01:57 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



It isn't much of a shift, but I doubt it would take much. Maybe 1/4".

Steve
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 19 2017, 11:17 PM
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Time to add tapered hard plastic wedges to the upper sill. Only need 4, 2 on each side front and rear... after you get the silicone off the roof and use Dicor self leveling.
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RV_Tech
post Aug 20 2017, 08:14 AM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



I got the Dicor done last night. I am not sure about the shims as the camper is an 04 model and I might simply have the entire roof and vinyl replaced.

Hallmark with rebuild just about anything at their factory during the winter months and the overall quality of their construction compared to the other types of RVs we have owned is outstanding. Much of the camper still looks like new and it is 13 years old.

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SidecarFlip
post Aug 20 2017, 08:35 AM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Not shims, hard plastic alignment wedges. Imagine a short (1/2" long half pyramid in each side corner, fastened to the upper sill, inboard of the lip seal. Pretty easy to self install and aligns the roof perfectly when lowered.
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Nobody
post Aug 20 2017, 10:02 AM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 5-November 12
Member No.: 6,339
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Palomino
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: '99 Ford F-250 SuperCab long bed, 7.3L Power Stroke
Type of Tiedowns used: Blackstone Mfg Co Camper Clampers, looking for TorkLift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2003 SunLite 8.5 WTSB, modified roof lift to support roof air



Been interesting watching this conversation progress. I lowered the roof on my SunLite before I took the camper off to install the Happijac tiedowns. Always keep the truck parked on a level spot in the bacvkyard & if it ain't level enough for the fridge to operate I put a block under a tire to level it up. When it's off the truck I level it with the lifting jacks. With the roof closed there's no sign of any alighment wedges but they may be inside?? Don't think there's any there tho. Only thing I can see (other than the rubber(?) seal is the ground wires for the clearance lights (I'm gonna hafta re-do those since aout half of my clearance lights don't work. I have some LED bulbs to replace the incandescent bulbs but haven't gotten around to running the new ground contact. All the clearance lights are in a 'daisy chain' around the aluminum rim of the roof assembly. Should be a simple matter to make sure they're all making good contact (unless my vertigo kicks in & I fall off the ladder). I usually secure myself a good seat on the step ladder & if I experience an episode of vertigo I just hang on 'til it's gone. I've decided that this 'gettin' old stuff ain't for sissies, but mostly I just count myself lucky that I'm still able to do what I like at my age! I have friends & associates who've just about given up but I refuse to do that. I think ya start dyin' when ya quit livin'! & some folks even before then. Oh yeah, we've had a couple of pretty heavy rains since I took the camper off & lowered the roof. Guess I must've gotten it right this time. No evidence of water penetration at all.
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RV_Tech
post Aug 20 2017, 11:29 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Man, I can't believe it, You too? I am working on my truck camper now doing some touch up paint and like you, periodically waiting for the dizziness to pass. Just remember anyone who tells you life is better when you are old never had a life when they were young (and you can quote me on that.

Steve smile.gif
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 20 2017, 03:38 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(Nobody @ Aug 20 2017, 10:02 AM)
Been interesting watching this conversation progress. I lowered the roof on my SunLite before I took the camper off to install the Happijac tiedowns. Always keep the truck parked on a level spot in the bacvkyard & if it ain't level enough for the fridge to operate I put a block under a tire to level it up. When it's off the truck I level it with the lifting jacks. With the roof closed there's no sign of any alighment wedges but they may be inside?? Don't think there's any there tho. Only thing I can see (other than the rubber(?) seal is the ground wires for the clearance lights (I'm gonna hafta re-do those since aout half of my clearance lights don't work. I have some LED bulbs to replace the incandescent bulbs but haven't gotten around to running the new ground contact. All the clearance lights are in a 'daisy chain' around the aluminum rim of the roof assembly. Should be a simple matter to make sure they're all making good contact (unless my vertigo kicks in & I fall off the ladder). I usually secure myself a good seat on the step ladder & if I experience an episode of vertigo I just hang on 'til it's gone. I've decided that this 'gettin' old stuff ain't for sissies, but mostly I just count myself lucky that I'm still able to do what I like at my age! I have friends & associates who've just about given up but I refuse to do that. I think ya start dyin' when ya quit livin'! & some folks even before then. Oh yeah, we've had a couple of pretty heavy rains since I took the camper off & lowered the roof. Guess I must've gotten it right this time. No evidence of water penetration at all.
*



Good deal on the dry. My Palomino has hard plastic alignment wedges on the upper sill (not the roof) that guide the roof into the down position, makes lowering pretty easy. I relamped mine with LED's from SuperbiightLED.com good prices and fast delivery. Mine came LED on the inside but not the outside.

I don't get dizzy but I am forgetful at 67. Have to pee a lot too...lol
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Nobody
post Aug 21 2017, 10:30 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 124
Joined: 5-November 12
Member No.: 6,339
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Palomino
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: '99 Ford F-250 SuperCab long bed, 7.3L Power Stroke
Type of Tiedowns used: Blackstone Mfg Co Camper Clampers, looking for TorkLift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2003 SunLite 8.5 WTSB, modified roof lift to support roof air



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Aug 20 2017, 11:29 AM)
Man, I can't believe it, You too? I am working on my truck camper now doing some touch up paint and like you, periodically waiting for the dizziness to pass. Just remember anyone who tells you life is better when you are old never had a life when they were young (and you can quote me on that.

Steve smile.gif
*



Thanks Tech. Glad to know I'm not th only one. My Dad always said, "Anyone who talks about the 'good ole days' never lived through 'em." I've been plagued with dizziness & lightheadedness since March 2016, Docs (Primary Care Physician, 2 cardiologists, 2 Otolaryngologists [ENT], a gastroenterologist, & at least one internal medicine Spec), have been working overtime trying to figure out the cause of my problem. One of the ENTs (dizziness Spec) said that invariably when a person my age has normal balance tests (as I do) that the problem comes from Anxiety causes, & if I was his father or grandfather he'd see to it I was prescribed one of the anti-anxiety drugs, & that's what he was recommending to my PCP. Another of the ENTs had me on an epilepsy drug (for dizziness??) since January 2017. My PCP took me off the epilepsy med 'cold turkey, bad move! & put me on an anti anxiety drug but all it did was make me sicker. He said he didn't know if it was the drug or withdrawal from the epilepsy med?? but sent me to see the internal med spec to find out if it was withdrawal or the med causing my symptoms. The Internal Med Spec first started me on small doses of generic Zoloft but that made me too sleepy so he changed to tiny (2mg twice daily) of a generic valium. That also appeared to be too much so 10 days ago he switched it to 1mg 3 times daily. Doesn't make me as sleepy but don't think it's helping much either. I have apt with him this Thursday morning so we'll see what he says. Never been much on mind altering drugs so I don't know how they're supposed to affect me?? I just know I'm tired of feeling bad all the time, & not knowing when one of the dizzy episodes will 'hit'. Went to the VA in January (they gave me hearing aids) & saw a psychologist who made me think I'm doing it all to myself??. Think they finally discounted that. Had cataract surgery in both eyes in Jan & Feb 2016 & one of the cardiologists suggested this might have a visual trigger but I think he also discounted that after some thought. I'm thinking it again since I've been having trouble with my left eye since shortly after surgery, I just discovered last week that my eyes seem to try to focus at different distances which may well be confusing my brain (what little I have left). I have appt with the opthalmologist today to see if he can figure a solution, then appt with the cardiologist & a Nurse Practitioner to check my pacemaker power supply. Maybe between 'em they can figure out some relief for me. I'm able to ignore the dizziness most of the time if I have a specific task that must be done. I'm still able to drive my wife to her eye appts & go to the local Air Force Base every month or so for meds. I asked the Internal Med Spec about that & he said it's normal (whatever that means), that you should be able to do whatever has to be done regardless of the dizziness, but I ain't sure I believe that. I have trouble ignoring it when I'm on that ladder...
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