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> Confused Newbie, Payload vs Wet Weight

chipgreens
post Jun 30 2010, 11:30 AM
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Hello,

We're looking to join the truck camper world but I'm having trouble understanding how to match truck to camper particulary in regards to payload. At this point we have neither a truck or camper yet, and from the recommendations, selecting the camper first seems to be a better starting place.

From my understanding, a deciding factor for a match is a camper's approximate wet weight compared to a truck's payload capacity, is this the basic rule?

Assuming this is correct, here's an example of my confusion using Lance 825 and Toyota Tundra only as an example (I don't mean to bash a company or anything, just trying to explain the confustion).

On TC Magazine site they list Lance 825:

Dry Weight: 1,755
Wet Weight: 2,640

On Lance's website they list the same dry weight of 1,755 and claim it's light enough to fit on a Toyota Tundra. However the highest payload config for a Tundra I came up with was around 2,090lbs (Regular Cab, 4x2 Tundra Long Bed, 5.7L, V8).


Is this just a case where it's safer not to put that camper on a Tundra?


I guess in short, my question is once you select a camper, is it a 'MUST' to then select a truck that will cover the approximate wet weight?

Or "going by the numbers", do most people exceed the payload limit?

Sorry for the long post...

Many thanks in advance,
Charles
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aqualung
post Jun 30 2010, 06:57 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Adventurer 90FWS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Dodge 3500 Dually Quadcab 4x4 6.7L Cummins
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2008 Adventurer 90FWS Torklift Tiedowns with SuperHitch and SuperTruss Firestone Air Bags Torklift Load Stabilizers Fastgun Turnbuckles



Hi Charles,

I think everyone on this forum understands your confusion from first hand experience they've had at some point. I find that most dealers don't really know or care about the limits etc - they're in it for the sale and its buyer beware.

You're right, A Toyota Tundra is not a good truck for the Lance 825 camper. It all boils down to the truck's GVWR versus all of the cargo in the truck, including the truck's wet weight, passengers, food, camper, water in the camper etc etc etc.

I personaly find the camper manufacturer's are a little mis-leading with regards to what truck will carry thier camper but they always mention the phrase "do not exceed your vehicle's GVWR" which is their CYA.

If you exceed your truck's GVWR and you get in an accident, you just gave your insurance company a legal out. They don't have to cover you since you exceeded your truck's capabilities. You could also be looking at a fine for driving an over-loaded vehicle. With this said, I'm pretty sure most people violate the GVWR by a little (or maybe even a lot). You can add airbags to make the ride better but even the airbag manufacturer states "do not exceed your vehicles GVWR". You'll see this phrase all over the place, everyone is out to cover their butts.

When you calculate the numbers, make sure you include passengers, luggage, food, fresh water in the camper tanks (8.5lbs/gal), turnbuckles, tie downs, any acceesories added to the truck, any accessories add to the camper, fuel in the truck's tanks (8lbs/gal), propane (40lbs)... the list goes on and on and it adds up in a hurry.

When I bought my rig, I bought the truck first and the camper second. I figured I'd get the biggest truck I could and got a Dodge 3500 Dually with a GVWR of 12200lbs. I figured I could carry any camper then, without worry..... Ha!

I then built a spreadsheet comparing the weights of a bunch of campers with accessories and added in the turnbuckles, hitch, tiedowns, water in the tanks etc. Most that I was looking at put me over my truck's GVWR. When it came down to it, the camper I did buy (which weighs just under 3000lbs wet) plus all the other stuff, family included, came in at 72lbs under my truck's GVWR limit. When I hook up my trailer I have to make sure the water tanks in the camper are empty or I'm over the limit. I went to my local weigh scales and measured it all fully loaded so the numbers are accurate. In hind sight i would say selecting the camper first is the better way to go but do the math of both the camper and truck to make sure it all fits before you buy anything.

In the end, (and sorry for the long winded response) to be legal on the road, don't exceed the truck's GVWR. Oh, and there's no easy answer to the question "will this camper fit this truck?"
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chipgreens
post Jul 1 2010, 11:27 AM
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Hi aqualung,

Thanks for the response and for the GREAT information/explanation! It's actually making sense to me now. You also brought up great points regarding the insurance and legal side of things that I didn't think about.

I'd characterize myself as a conservative person who would error on the side of caution so that helps with matching campers to trucks. Your spreadsheet idea will be useful determining what items will actually be loaded into the camper.

Thanks again for the great insight. This is a great forum with many helpful people.

Regards,
Charles

P.S. Now I can use your information to convince my wife that I need a bigger truck!
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pjviitas
post Jul 2 2010, 01:51 PM
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Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F-150
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Truck and Camper Setup: None yet



QUOTE(chipgreens @ Jul 1 2010, 09:27 AM)
Hi aqualung,

Thanks for the response and for the GREAT information/explanation!  It's actually making sense to me now.  You also brought up great points regarding the insurance and legal side of things that I didn't think about. 

I'd characterize myself as a conservative person who would error on the side of caution so that helps with matching campers to trucks.  Your spreadsheet idea will be useful determining what items will actually be loaded into the camper.

Thanks again for the great insight.  This is a great forum with many helpful people.

Regards,
Charles

P.S.  Now I can use your information to convince my wife that I need a bigger truck!
*



I just went through the same thing and will cut and paste part of an e-mail I sent off recently.

"I have spent quite a bit of time researching truck campers and have concluded that Four Wheel Campers makes the best truck camper for a Ford F-150with a GVWR of 6950lbs.

The lighest hard-side camper I can find is an Adventurer 80SK with a Dry Weight of 1360lbs. (The base unit is 1276lbs but you won't find a dealer that stocks a base unit). Loaded up I would be looking at the following numbers:
Truck Curb Weight 5043
Remove Tailgate -50
Driver&Passenger 375
Boat Trailer Tongue Weight 75
Camper Dry Weight 1360
Remove Jacks -100
Water 125
Propane 20
Battery 65
Total 6913lbs
Which leaves 37lbs for food, gear or beer. So rolling down the highway this camper would essentially void my trucks warranty and probably put me into hot water with ICBC if an accident did happen.

Looking at a Four Wheel Campers Grandby optioned the way I like it would give a Dry Weight of 1011lbs. Loaded up I would be looking at the following numbers:
Truck Curb Weight 5043
Remove Tailgate -50
Driver&Passenger 375
Boat Trailer Tongue Weight 75
Camper Dry Weight 1011
Remove Jacks-100
Water 184
Propane 20
Battery 65
Total 6623lbs
Which leaves 327lbs for food, gear or beer. So rolling down the highway this camper would be nominal.

Depending on who you talk to some may say it is ok to overload a pick-up truck by 300lbs and they may be right in the case of a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton however, the semi-floating rear end of a 1/2 ton should NEVER be overloaded because it has a load bearing drive axle.

So why don't I go out and buy a 3/4 ton? Because they are expensive and they are hard on fuel."

Hope this helps.

Best Regards, Hedghog
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busterfrogg
post Oct 12 2010, 05:37 AM
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QUOTE(aqualung @ Jun 30 2010, 07:57 PM)
Hi Charles,

I think everyone on this forum understands your confusion from first hand experience they've had at some point. I find that most dealers don't really know or care about the limits etc - they're in it for the sale and its buyer beware.

You're right, A Toyota Tundra is not a good truck for the Lance 825 camper. It all boils down to the truck's GVWR versus all of the cargo in the truck, including the truck's wet weight, passengers, food, camper, water in the camper etc etc etc.

I personaly find the camper manufacturer's are a little mis-leading with regards to what truck will carry thier camper but they always mention the phrase "do not exceed your vehicle's GVWR" which is their CYA.

If you exceed your truck's GVWR and you get in an accident, you just gave your insurance company a legal out. They don't have to cover you since you exceeded your truck's capabilities. You could also be looking at a fine for driving an over-loaded vehicle. With this said, I'm pretty sure most people violate the GVWR by a little (or maybe even a lot). You can add airbags to make the ride better but even the airbag manufacturer states "do not exceed your vehicles GVWR". You'll see this phrase all over the place, everyone is out to cover their butts.

When you calculate the numbers, make sure you include passengers, luggage, food, fresh water in the camper tanks (8.5lbs/gal), turnbuckles, tie downs, any acceesories added to the truck, any accessories add to the camper, fuel in the truck's tanks (8lbs/gal), propane (40lbs)... the list goes on and on and it adds up in a hurry.

When I bought my rig, I bought the truck first and the camper second. I figured I'd get the biggest truck I could and got a Dodge 3500 Dually with a GVWR of 12200lbs. I figured I could carry any camper then, without worry..... Ha!

I then built a spreadsheet comparing the weights of a bunch of campers with accessories and added in the turnbuckles, hitch, tiedowns, water in the tanks etc. Most that I was looking at put me over my truck's GVWR. When it came down to it, the camper I did buy (which weighs just under 3000lbs wet) plus all the other stuff, family included, came in at 72lbs under my truck's GVWR limit. When I hook up my trailer I have to make sure the water tanks in the camper are empty or I'm over the limit. I went to my local weigh scales and measured it all fully loaded so the numbers are accurate. In hind sight i would say selecting the camper first is the better way to go but do the math of both the camper and truck to make sure it all fits before you buy anything.

In the end, (and sorry for the long winded response) to be legal on the road, don't exceed the truck's GVWR. Oh, and there's no easy answer to the question "will this camper fit this truck?"
*



A WORD OF CAUTION for readers of this post. Ignore the suggestions that your insurance won't cover you in an accident if you exceed your GVWR. READ AND UNDERSTAND YOUR INSURANCE POLICY. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE POLICY, CONTACT YOUR AGENT OR THE UNDERWRITER FOR CLARIFICATION.
Exceeding your vehicle GVWR may very well void your new vehicle warranty, but most insurance policies do not and cannot exclude coverage for this reason.
This reader has encountered a lot of misinformation on these sites. VERIFY, VERIFY, VERIFY.
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Jerry Gaylor
post Feb 14 2017, 08:47 AM
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Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with fast guns and Happy Jack's
Truck and Camper Setup: 2001 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD overload Springs airbags 19 and a half inch rims and Michelin 19 and a half inch tires camper is a 2007 snow River 10.2 K custom built for previous owner all-weather camper



I am a truck camper owner I think all the advice she got here it's good but I didn't hear a single person mention the load on the tires the tires to the most critical part of the equation for example on my truck I run 19 and a half inch rims and 19 and a half inch Michelin 16 ply load range H Tires my tires have a carry capacity of almost five thousand pounds apiece at a hundred and twenty pounds of pressure you need to take this into account as well good luck in coming up with the camper of your dreams and a matching truck
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SidecarFlip
post Feb 15 2017, 01:27 PM
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Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(Jerry Gaylor @ Feb 14 2017, 08:47 AM)
I am a truck camper owner I think all the advice she got here it's good but I didn't hear a single person mention the load on the tires the tires to the most critical part of the equation for example on my truck I run 19 and a half inch rims and 19 and a half inch Michelin 16 ply load range H Tires my tires have a carry capacity of almost five thousand pounds apiece at a hundred and twenty pounds of pressure you need to take this into account as well good luck in coming up with the camper of your dreams and a matching truck
*



Additionally, most new trucks sold today come with marginal tires from the factory, tires designed for ride not carrying capacity.

Carrying any camper down the road requires stout tires, at least 10 ply rated LT tires running maximum rated sidewall pressure.

Having said that, long ago I replaced all my 'chinese' rubber valve stems with real, all metal bolt down stems. Rubber stems cannot stand up to high pressure inflation HD truck tires. Only all metal bolt down stems can. With race cars, where stem failure is not a option. all racing bodies require bolt down stems, no exceptions. Do yourself a favor and replace your 'chinese' rubber stems with real high pressure ones..
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SidecarFlip
post Feb 15 2017, 01:33 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(Jerry Gaylor @ Feb 14 2017, 08:47 AM)
I am a truck camper owner I think all the advice she got here it's good but I didn't hear a single person mention the load on the tires the tires to the most critical part of the equation for example on my truck I run 19 and a half inch rims and 19 and a half inch Michelin 16 ply load range H Tires my tires have a carry capacity of almost five thousand pounds apiece at a hundred and twenty pounds of pressure you need to take this into account as well good luck in coming up with the camper of your dreams and a matching truck
*




People tend to forget about tires they don't even bother to check the pressure until...they have a blowout at speed and then it's too late.

I constantly worry about my tires, check the inflation pressures before every trip and inspect the tread and sidewalls. too. You loose a tire at speed with a TC in the bed, chances are you'll wreck.

I would also suggest for those who aren't disciplined enough to check their tires reqularly, investing in a TPMS add on kit with dash readout.
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