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> To 'D' or not to 'D'?, Duallys for a "moderate" camper?

taberski
post Apr 27 2014, 10:20 PM
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From: Longmont, Colorado
Member No.: 7,523
Favorite Truck Camper(s): TBD
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2014 RAM 3500 Laramie 4x4 Crew Cab Dually Diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: N/A
Truck and Camper Setup: Considering an Arctic Fox 990



I've been researching trucks and campers for quite some time - with the hope of purchasing a truck soon followed by a camper at a later date (likely next season) - but I'm really on the fence regarding a DRW versus SRW truck. I realize that this topic has likely been discussed ad nauseum, but I'm thinking of the trade-off in terms of safety margin and stability with the potential inconvenience of driving and parking (and so on) a dually as opposed to pushing the limits of GVWR.

The campers that I'm looking at are in the 2500# to 3000# (dry weight) range. I also occasionally tow a trailer (2 horse trailer with 2 ~350# llamas) which I'd like to combine with camping. Using the 1000# rules of thumb that I see mentioned, that puts a potential payload of #3500 to #4000 on the truck pretty easily. Even for a 3500/F350 class truck, this is beginning to get pretty close to the maximum GVWR of these trucks.

My question is, how reasonable is it to operate a truck near it's GVWR? Especially given that the weight is not evenly distributed? Most of the weight of the camper is on the rear axle and that weight is likely not centered side-to-side.

My inclination is to just get a dually to gain enough margin in GVWR so that I'm not potentially bumping up against the GVWR. Then, if we decide to get a heavy camper, tow a trailer or add more than a 1000# to make the camper "wet", I might be all set. It seems to me that "more is better" might apply in this case.

On the other hand, the camper and truck dealers (not to mention family and friends) are all suggesting that an SRW truck is adequate - almost to the point of ridicule when I suggest getting a dually.

In their defense, they point out some of the shortcomings of driving a dually - mainly parking - especially when running empty.

So my other question is - for those of you that own dually pickups - is the additional hassle of driving and parking a dually pickup (especially when not used with a camper), combined with the added costs (of the truck itself, reduction in fuel economy and increase in cost of tires) worth it?

My fear is that if I accept the argument and buy into the relative convenience of driving and parking an SRW truck, I will be disappointed with the experience once I get a camper and load it up.

For a frame of reference, we liked the Northern Lite 9'6" Q Classic Special Edition(2625#), but we also looked at the 10'2" CD Special Edition (2980#) and my wife liked the Eagle Cap 850 (3117#) - I'd prefer to not have a slide (but you know how that goes ;~). But the truck will be used as daily driver for the near term (until I can justify the purchase of a 3rd vehicle). In other words, I will find myself driving this truck empty 80+ percent of the time.

Any experiences with owning and driving a dually while not camping, along with thoughts about payloads under the GVWR are greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Kevin
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Spanky
post Apr 28 2014, 07:21 AM
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From: Silver City, New Mexico
Member No.: 144
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance 1030
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1999 F350 Power Stroke Dually SuperCab
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 1999 Ford F350 4x4 Super Cab 1 ton Dually Lance 1030 Torklift tiedowns



Being a dually owner for over 10 years I would have to say once you own one you will never want to go back to SRW.


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1999 F350 Power Stroke Dually Super Cab, 2003 Lance 1030
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aqualung
post Apr 28 2014, 04:07 PM
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Joined: 3-February 10
Member No.: 3,725
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Adventurer 90FWS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Dodge 3500 Dually Quadcab 4x4 6.7L Cummins
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2008 Adventurer 90FWS Torklift Tiedowns with SuperHitch and SuperTruss Firestone Air Bags Torklift Load Stabilizers Fastgun Turnbuckles



In my opinion, having the added stability of the dually far out weighs any parking issues that I've come across (a very rare occurance). Of course I don't spend half an hour in parking lots trying to find that spot that's closer to the store, instead I just head to the spots away from the store and walk the extra distance.

With a truck large enough to carry a large camper safely, its going to be a big truck and the extra foot or so in width really isn't an issue. But that extra width sure does help with the stability of the rig, specially in corners. Having owned both SRW and DRW trucks, I'd only go back to a SRW if I were to get out of truck camping permanently and never foresaw any need to haul anything heavy ever again..... so when I'm about ready to kick the bucket huh.gif

My wife also drives the truck, probably more often than I do and she loves it. It was intimidating to her at first but after the first few trips driving it that intimidation was completely gone. She'd probably drive it everywhere if fuel costs were lower but the small car is cheaper to operate so if both are available then the car heads out. When we're both heading out, its a race to see who gets to the truck first. Fortunately for me, I have longer legs and usually win. wink.gif
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taberski
post Apr 29 2014, 05:36 AM
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From: Longmont, Colorado
Member No.: 7,523
Favorite Truck Camper(s): TBD
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2014 RAM 3500 Laramie 4x4 Crew Cab Dually Diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: N/A
Truck and Camper Setup: Considering an Arctic Fox 990



QUOTE(aqualung @ Apr 28 2014, 03:07 PM)
In my opinion, having the added stability of the dually far out weighs any parking issues that I've come across (a very rare occurance). Of course I don't spend half an hour in parking lots trying to find that spot that's closer to the store, instead I just head to the spots away from the store and walk the extra distance.

With a truck large enough to carry a large camper safely, its going to be a big truck and the extra foot or so in width really isn't an issue. But that extra width sure does help with the stability of the rig, specially in corners. Having owned both SRW and DRW trucks, I'd only go back to a SRW if I were to get out of truck camping permanently and never foresaw any need to haul anything heavy ever again..... so when I'm about ready to kick the bucket  huh.gif

My wife also drives the truck, probably more often than I do and she loves it. It was intimidating to her at first but after the first few trips driving it that intimidation was completely gone. She'd probably drive it everywhere if fuel costs were lower but the small car is cheaper to operate so if both are available then the car heads out. When we're both heading out, its a race to see who gets to the truck first. Fortunately for me, I have longer legs and usually win.  wink.gif
*



The Adventurer 90FWS is the size and style of campers that we are considering - with a listed dry weight of 2576# and I see that you also drive a truck very much like I am considering.

Do you happen to know what the wet weight of your setup?

How do you like your 3500? In my case, one of the factors in the DRW vs SRW debate - is that this truck will likely replace my daily driver for at least a year or so. Which means that I will be driving the truck empty quite a bit. With the camper on, it seems like a DRW is a no brainer - it's the non-camping time that is the issue. Can you comment on the handling (especially in snow if it applies in your case) when empty? The other thing I'm a bit curious about is - how much do owners just leave the camper on the truck for extended periods of time and just drive it with the camper on? Is this scenario common?

Spanky - a 2003 Lance 1030 weighs 2770# (dry), so the same questions apply (except perhaps for the snow ;~). The other truck I'm considering is a Ford F350 (except Crew Cab).

Thank you both,

Kevin
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Spanky
post Apr 29 2014, 07:26 AM
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From: Silver City, New Mexico
Member No.: 144
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance 1030
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1999 F350 Power Stroke Dually SuperCab
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 1999 Ford F350 4x4 Super Cab 1 ton Dually Lance 1030 Torklift tiedowns



I have a 2003 F-350 Super Duty 4 wheel drive so I dont have much problems with any kind of weather or driving conditions(and I am a tractor trailer driver so that helps) I also drive mine as a daily driver and have no problems. Most of the time when I go to places to shop I park out in the open lot but I really dont have any issues parking anywhere. Although, when I go through the drive tru at the bank I have to be watchful, and the ATM is out of the question. It may not seem worth it without the camper but you will be much happier with the camper loaded. I also have a Lance 10'30. JMO


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1999 F350 Power Stroke Dually Super Cab, 2003 Lance 1030
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aqualung
post Apr 29 2014, 07:39 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 165
Joined: 3-February 10
Member No.: 3,725
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Adventurer 90FWS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Dodge 3500 Dually Quadcab 4x4 6.7L Cummins
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2008 Adventurer 90FWS Torklift Tiedowns with SuperHitch and SuperTruss Firestone Air Bags Torklift Load Stabilizers Fastgun Turnbuckles



Well, I live in the Great White North so we deal with snow and ice regularly, specially this past winter (Brrrrrrr). Driving the DRW in the snow is no different than driving the SRW trucks I've had in the past - both aren't great. The rear end of any pickup is too light to get good traction in the snow so we always add some weight in the truck bed to help out. All of my trucks have been four wheel drive trucks mainly to handle winter weather and its uncommon to see a two wheel drive pickup truck around here. As I'm sure you know, driving in the snow and ice is all about traction and tire contact with the road. The DRW usually has more contact with the road than a SRW but its rear end can float more than a SRW. Adding weight to the truck bed takes care of this.

Driving empty is much rougher than driving with the camper on since the rear suspension is very stiff. I have added air bags to help level the truck when loaded but leaving a few pounds in them when unloaded also helps to smooth out the ride. I don't think that the DRW affects this any more than a SRW would when its configured to handle the weight of a camper - they both have to handle the same weight so they will both have very stiff rear suspensions.

Because of the stiff suspension and wide rear end, the DRW truck handles corners extremely well. I have to keep reminding myself that I'm in the truck and not the car because it corners so well. I can't say the same thing for the SRW trucks I've owned in the past.

To sum up, the only negative I've found with the DRW when compared to the SRW is the extra width when parking which really doesn't bother me at all. And as I mentioned before, it doesn't bother my wife either. We have two drivers in our house and two vehicles (car and the 3500) so the truck is often driven empty. I'd say its empty 70% of the time it spends on the road.

Do I like my 3500? Absolutely! I'd drive it all the time if fuel costs were lower but the car is a little diesel Volkswagen so there really is no comparison in fuel economy. I just suck it up and take the car unless I can dream up an excuse where I "need" the truck.

As for camper dry weights, its tough to use the numbers you find on manufacturer's websites since the actual dry weight is changed by the options added. I've taken our rig to the CAT Scales and measured it fully loaded with a full fuel tank, full water tanks, all passengers on board (right after a big meal) so I could get the worst case number and it came it at 11856lbs. My GVWR is 12200lbs, this leaves some room for tongue weight when we add our ATV trailer to the mix. The truck without camper is 8200lbs but the tail gate and a tonneau cover is added to that. Since I've never measure the truck empty with the exact configuration as when I have the camper on board I don't have an accurate wet weight for the camper but I estimate it to be just under 3800lbs.

Of course any new RAM 3500 will be different from my 2009 but I believe that payload numbers are going up, certainly the towing numbers have gone way up.

Leaving the camper on the truck? We never do unless its a short overnight somewhere with the camper. Its always off the truck at home and is only loaded when we're heading out camping. At the campsite, we usually unload the camper so we have the truck to drive around with, unless its a short stay. In my area, people don't seem to leave their campers on the truck but I don't see any reason why you couldn't do so if you really wanted to.
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taberski
post Apr 29 2014, 09:52 AM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 20-April 14
From: Longmont, Colorado
Member No.: 7,523
Favorite Truck Camper(s): TBD
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2014 RAM 3500 Laramie 4x4 Crew Cab Dually Diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: N/A
Truck and Camper Setup: Considering an Arctic Fox 990



Once again, thank you both for the additional information.

Based on your CAT Scale measurements, it seems as though it's quite easy to add 1200# to the dry weight of a camper. It's weird to me that the dealers I've visited with (both camper and truck), insist that an SRW is adequate, but it's all opinion.

Granted - you "can" get an SRW truck with a GVWR rated to 12,200#, but is it the correct choice? I'm thinking not.

Thank you for your time.

Kevin
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Widows Son
post May 24 2014, 06:53 PM
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Group: Members
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Northern Lite
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2014 Dodge 3500 DRW Cummins
Type of Tiedowns used: Shopping for a good tie down
Truck and Camper Setup: None yet. We will be buying a truck camper to go with us into retirement in December.



We bought a long bed Dodge 3500 4x4 DRW with Aisson transmission, Cummins diesel, and 3.73 gears. We are planning on buying a Northern Lite 10-2 CD-SE in January. With the truck at 8800 wet and a capacity of 14k, we should be in fine shape, even if we flat tow our Jeep CJ7. We wanted the extra capacity and stability just in case. Leaving the camper on during the winter should give ample weight to get around in fine shape in our Colorado snow and ice with due care of course.
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taberski
post Jun 6 2014, 09:10 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 20-April 14
From: Longmont, Colorado
Member No.: 7,523
Favorite Truck Camper(s): TBD
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2014 RAM 3500 Laramie 4x4 Crew Cab Dually Diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: N/A
Truck and Camper Setup: Considering an Arctic Fox 990



I just wanted to follow up.

I ordered a 3500 Ram 4x4 Crew-Cab Dually Laramie Diesel with an 8' box today. I settled on the dually, in-part, due to the feedback I received on this forum (thank you for that), but also based on the information provided in the 2014 Ram Body Builder's Guide, under the Ram Camper Guide section. It takes a bit of study, but the recommended maximum weight of a slide-in camper for a SRW 3500 4x4 Laramie crew-cab (diesel, 8' box and bucket seats) is 3,206# and only goes up to 4,631# for the DRW.

I know that these recommendations are quite a bit lower than the maximum payloads (4,460# and 5,780# for SRW and DRW resp.) than these trucks are rated, but it's one more piece of information. I decided that stability, safety and a bit of extra payload "margin" were worth the additional aggravation in parking.

What I personally don't want to happen is to purchase a truck and then wish I had gone bigger after the fact. I guess I won't know until I get my truck and ultimately purchase the camper - which is likely to be heavier than what we've already considered.

Thanks again,

Kevin
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LDHunter
post Jul 10 2014, 06:28 AM
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Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2006 F350 6.0 Lariat King 8'
Type of Tiedowns used: None
Truck and Camper Setup: Looking for a camper right now.



I am likely late with my advice and am no expert on pickup campers but here's my 2 cents worth.

I agonized over dually vs. SRW for a couple of years and in the end bought a 4WD 2006 F350 Crew Cab Diesel with 8' bed that is a SRW.

A large part of my decision was in getting a like new truck that had been babied for a good price but since the purchase I've found that the SRW and high center of gravity in this 4WD pickup drove my expectations of a camper into much lighter territory than I would have picked if I'd bought a dually.

Since I'm primarily a hunter and fisherman that will be using my truck and camper for weekend hunting and fishing trips I bought a NorthStar TC800 (lightweight popup at about 1500lbs dry) and am very happy with it but if you're taking your wife on extended trips and she likes comfort I'd buy a dually and NEVER look back.

Unlike me, most buyers of campers are satisying a spouse that likes comfort and seeks space to move around and buying a SRW pickup when you're facing that is being unrealistic.

IMO the SRW camper truck is for people that are minimalists and are willing to give up a lot of space and conveniences for mobility, light weight, good fuel mileage, and small footprint.

That being said, my friends with duallies always comment on how much more manueverable my truck is and how it easily goes into tight spaces that their duallies won't fit in. I also get way better actual fuel mileage than they do. Almost ALL of them own a small pickup as well for their daily driver.

There is no set right or wrong answer but there are always tradeoffs and safety quickly becomes an issue if you want a SRW but have a want/need for a big heavy camper. Note: almost ALL pickup campers fall in this category.

I guess it's safe to say that fully 80% of the pickup campers and trucks I see on the road are horribly matched and almost always WAY overloaded and top heavy. I go the other route and try to go well under my truck's limits not just for safety's sake but to save fuel and increase my portability which is my whole reason for a slide-in pickup camper in the first place.

Bob
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anmol77
post Apr 20 2016, 06:44 AM
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Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: F-350



thanks for information


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== Chess ==
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