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> new member, finging the right camper for our needs

jashyd
post Jan 14 2018, 12:53 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 14-January 18
Member No.: 9,931
Favorite Truck Camper(s): lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2004 dodge duelly diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: ect
Truck and Camper Setup: new member looking to changing from 5th.wheel to truck camper.



Hello, I am a new member here. I am changing from a 5th. wheel camper to a truck camper . I have a 2004 dodge 1 ton dually diesel long bed. My problem is I don't know what size camper will be right for our needs. we may have as many as 4 adults some times but mostly just 2 or 3 . I do want a dry bath ,A/c furnace ,most all common items . I am wanting a used one . I was told that a Lance is the best but that to me is hear say . We camp 2 to 3 weeks a year and some weekends . I need advice from all you good folks . Thank You.
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mbrink
post Jan 14 2018, 02:10 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 27-December 17
Member No.: 9,913
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Artic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ram 3500 CC, short bed, diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Fast Gun
Truck and Camper Setup: 2018 Dodge, 2011 811 Artic Fox, Torklift tie downs and hitch



With that truck you have a lot of options. I had a 2001 Lance 820 for 15 years, and now have an Artic Fox 811. Both a short bed campers. Campers get tight for 4 people, both on sleeping and moving around; especially with 4 adults. We had 4 of us in the Lance (2 kids, 2 adults), and a dog. Worked OK. Now just the two of us in the 811.

The Artic Fox has a slide out, which makes the living space so much more spacious. But the slide out comes at expense of cost, weight and complexity. If need to sleep 3 to 4 adults, look for as long as a dinette as you can as that is the second bed.


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jashyd
post Jan 15 2018, 06:40 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 14-January 18
Member No.: 9,931
Favorite Truck Camper(s): lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2004 dodge duelly diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: ect
Truck and Camper Setup: new member looking to changing from 5th.wheel to truck camper.



QUOTE(mbrink @ Jan 14 2018, 02:10 PM)
With that truck you have a lot of options.  I had a 2001 Lance 820 for 15 years, and now have an Artic Fox 811. Both a short bed campers.  Campers get tight for 4 people, both on sleeping and moving around; especially with 4 adults.  We had 4 of us in the Lance (2 kids, 2 adults), and a dog.  Worked OK.  Now just the two of us in the 811.     

The Artic Fox has a slide out, which makes the living space so much more spacious.  But the slide out comes at expense of cost, weight and complexity.  If need to sleep 3 to 4 adults, look for as long as a dinette as you can as that is the second bed.
*


Thanks, with the slide out what kind of complexity is there , won't it slide out while on truck ? also I don't want any type of popup .
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Chief 2
post Jan 15 2018, 06:48 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 59
Joined: 19-March 17
Member No.: 9,469
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2005 Chevrolet 3500 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijac with Quick Loads
Truck and Camper Setup: 2005 Chevy 3500 4x4 Edge Attitude, 4" exhaust, Airaid Air Intake, Ranchos, Air Bags, Hellwig Big Wig, Cabover struts. Lance 1172 loaded with 200 watt Renogy solar and Zamp controller



We are on our second Lance. First was a 2005 1181 with a single slide and the current one is an 1172 that has 2 slides. The slides allow for considerably more space, but add weight. With your truck you should have no issue with hauling a heavier TC. You may find that you may want to add some air bags if you don't already have them. No, the slides won't come out as you go down the road. WE also went from a 38' 5R to a TC. Don't regret it.
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mbrink
post Jan 15 2018, 10:16 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 27-December 17
Member No.: 9,913
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Artic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ram 3500 CC, short bed, diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Fast Gun
Truck and Camper Setup: 2018 Dodge, 2011 811 Artic Fox, Torklift tie downs and hitch



I have never had a trailer, but assume a camper slide out is essentially the same. You rely on motors, gears and tracks to extend and retract the slide out. Yes, you can slide it while on the truck. In fact you essentially have to in order to enter the camper. I can barely squeak by when the slide is in. Trick is to remember to slide it back in after that quick rest stop.

There is a manual crank backup system, but still complex. Since most trailers and 5thers have slides, I think it is safe to say manufacturers have it figured out. For a camper I think the issue is weight (and cost go up). With your 1 ton dually you should have the payload needed.

Pop ups seem like a great idea for a rig that goes offroad a lot. I took my Lance places people said I could not go. The Artic Fox is considerably heavier and taller, so really can't take it down a trail.

I see the biggest issue with pop ups is the small door. Every option has its pros and cons, just like a 5th vs TC.
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 15 2018, 06:19 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Pop up's like I have and RV Tech has are really meant for only 2 people or 2 and a kid and no more. Not a 'family' camper but are just fine for my wife and I or me and a hunting buddy.

With a pop up, no need to worry about overhead height issues oe rock and roll off road because the vertical Cg is lower but like I said, not a family camper unless you want to be 'close up and personnal with family members.

I had a Lance and sold it and frankly, I don't miss it at all. Hard to store, hard to take down the road (prone to cross winds) and heavy. I have a 1 ton but I always knew the Lance was in the bed. When my pop up is in the bed, don't even know it's there and my fuel mileage is a lot better too. Much less parasitic drag

Big thing that sold me on the pop up was storage. I keep it inside my garage in the off season. The one thing that destroys TC's is leaving them outside all the time, constant weathering ruins them and they develop leaks and eventually rot. Unlike the Lance, mine is inside and protected from the elements. I fully expect it to last at least 10-15 years and still maintain a good resale value. You keep a TC outdoors all the time, if you get 10 years, consider yourself lucky. Most don't last that long stored outside 24-7.
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jashyd
post Jan 15 2018, 08:52 PM
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 14-January 18
Member No.: 9,931
Favorite Truck Camper(s): lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2004 dodge duelly diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: ect
Truck and Camper Setup: new member looking to changing from 5th.wheel to truck camper.



QUOTE(Chief 2 @ Jan 15 2018, 06:48 AM)
We are on our second Lance. First was a 2005 1181 with a single slide and the current one is an 1172 that has 2 slides. The slides allow for considerably more space, but add weight. With your truck you should have no issue with hauling a heavier TC. You may find that you may want to add some air bags if you don't already have them. No, the slides won't come out as you go down the road. WE also went from a 38' 5R to a TC. Don't regret it.
*


I been looking at a2005 1010 lance and a 2014 palomino both are large but I don't see why the 2005 lance cost more than the 2014 palomino . I do see that the lance is heaver and holds more fresh, gray and black water and the 2014 is longer any input on these 2
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Chief 2
post Jan 16 2018, 07:06 AM
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 59
Joined: 19-March 17
Member No.: 9,469
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2005 Chevrolet 3500 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijac with Quick Loads
Truck and Camper Setup: 2005 Chevy 3500 4x4 Edge Attitude, 4" exhaust, Airaid Air Intake, Ranchos, Air Bags, Hellwig Big Wig, Cabover struts. Lance 1172 loaded with 200 watt Renogy solar and Zamp controller



I don't believe the Palomino is a higher end brand. Lighter usually means cheaper made if you are comparing size for size. The Lance will be one of the higher end brands from construction methods and weight. Lance switched from using all wood framing to aluminum back around 2005. If you are serious about the Lance get the serial number and call the factory in California and see if they can advise you on the framing material. Wood rots, aluminum won't!
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 16 2018, 09:30 AM
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Lance is using wood framing now and Lance has been bought out by REV Industries. Palomino isn't one of the 'higher end' campers and it's reflected in the price, however, the components in the Lance and Palomino are the same.

I'd rather pay 25 for a unit than 40 for the same thing and just be proactive in maintenance. Having owned and sold a Lance in the past and having both the Lance and the Palomino sitting side by side in the yard, I had the opportunity to compare them.

If I was to buy another unit, I'd buy a Bigfoot or Northstar over the Lance in a minute.

Opinions are opinions and nothing more however and there are a bunch of manufacturers out there. Having said that, Lance is far from the 'holy grail of TC's. There are better built units out there, both more expensive and less expensive.

If Lance was an ultimate TC, no one else would be in business selling TC's. That however is far from the truth.

It all distills down to what you want, your financial assets and your end use.

One issue that had always bothered me about Lance Campers is their constant lying about unit weight. The sticker weight on any Lance is total fantasy. Lance campers typically weigh in the excess of 500 pounds above the sticker weight. Bad business for the end user.
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JADE RACING
post Jan 16 2018, 10:50 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 12-December 14
Member No.: 7,895
Favorite Truck Camper(s): adventurer
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 07 gmc 3500 dually D/A
Type of Tiedowns used: torklift/fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: 07GMC3500 dually diesel/auto airbags torklift tiedowns/fastguns 56 gal transferflow tank banks spd brake/tuner;06 adventurer 106DBS 2.5ownan geny awning topper torklift stairs remote bbq rear awning ext trl hitch/basket for sewer tote



I can see that you are in a similar position as we were a few years ago. We purchased a 09 Travellite 1100XL Ultra from a private owner whom was not up to proper maintenance with this unit. Before we could use it I spent nearly a month of daily work stripping off it's skin to replace wet rotted wood framing. I got it completed and did a maiden voyage during a week long rain with great results. We found that we didn't have enough room with our dog and cat to travel as we wanted. We had conversed with Bill @ Truck Camper Wharehouse in New Hampshire before when we were getting ready to sell our 37' 5th wheel and he had quite a few used units on his lot. We stopped by on our way thru and worked a deal on our new to us 06 Adventurer 106 DBS T/C. We went from a wet bath non slide wood frame unit to a dry bath single slide aluminum framed unit with a winter based build generator on board unit that we both could feel comfortable in. Yes we have had a few glitches in the last 4&1/2 years BUT we have been able to get to some incredible camp sites which the 5th wheel could not make. Don't put Lance at the top of the pile as they also have problems if not maintained.
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mbrink
post Jan 16 2018, 09:34 PM
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 27-December 17
Member No.: 9,913
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Artic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ram 3500 CC, short bed, diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Fast Gun
Truck and Camper Setup: 2018 Dodge, 2011 811 Artic Fox, Torklift tie downs and hitch



I had Lance for 15 years, bought new. Never had an issue, but did have some water damage at back window by dinette that I could never find source of. It was an 820 with no AC or gen. Our 2001 F250 worked fine. Never felt over weight even when towing a jeep on trailer.

We have since bought a used 811 Artic Fox. Very happy with the camper, but it is definitely heavier with AC, Slide and Generator. Also has a basement, so CG higher. Used the F250 on a few trips, including a few long trips with jeep in tow. Got home fine, but really felt different. Advertised weights were about 300# apart, but actual weight likely much different, as was CG.

I still have the AF camper, but have a new 3500 Dodge, CC, diesel. Trucks have come a long ways in 17 years. it has a payload or about 3900 pounds and feels much more stable. Auto exhaust brake amazing. A lot of the change is likely due to 3/4 ton/1 ton, plus 16 years newer.

Back to the issue of weight, TC's are heavy. I have not been on scales with either camper, but felt the increase with the more equipped AF (as expected). I now feel confident with the new truck.

Both campers have been 100% reliable and I would recommend either. Lots of choices out there. I think the bigger decisions is "simple camper" for off road use, vs " fancy camper" which is like a house on wheels. I wish I could afford both in the garage. Our simple camper is a tent and Jeep.
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Chief 2
post Jan 17 2018, 07:49 AM
Post #12





Group: Members
Posts: 59
Joined: 19-March 17
Member No.: 9,469
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2005 Chevrolet 3500 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijac with Quick Loads
Truck and Camper Setup: 2005 Chevy 3500 4x4 Edge Attitude, 4" exhaust, Airaid Air Intake, Ranchos, Air Bags, Hellwig Big Wig, Cabover struts. Lance 1172 loaded with 200 watt Renogy solar and Zamp controller



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Jan 16 2018, 09:30 AM)
Lance is using wood framing now and Lance has been bought out by REV Industries.  Palomino isn't one of the 'higher end' campers and it's reflected in the price, however, the components in the Lance and Palomino are the same.

I'd rather pay 25 for a unit than 40 for the same thing and just be proactive in maintenance.  Having owned and sold a Lance in the past and having both the Lance and the Palomino sitting side by side in the yard, I had the opportunity to compare them.

If I was to buy another unit, I'd buy a Bigfoot or Northstar over the Lance in a minute.

Opinions are opinions and nothing more however and there are a bunch of manufacturers out there.  Having said that, Lance is far from the 'holy grail of TC's.  There are better built units out there, both more expensive and less expensive.

If Lance was an ultimate TC, no one else would be in business selling TC's.  That however is far from the truth.

It all distills down to what you want, your financial assets and your end use.

One issue that had always bothered me about Lance Campers is their constant lying about unit weight.  The sticker weight on any Lance is total fantasy.  Lance campers typically weigh in the excess of 500 pounds above the sticker weight.  Bad business for the end user.
*




If you look at the attached you will see that Lance is using aluminum framing not wood.
https://www.lancecamper.com/design-construction/
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 17 2018, 11:13 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Lance continually flip flops between wood and aluminum and has for years. I think it depends on the cost of materials more than anything else.

Myself, I prefer wood framing for a couple reasons.
1. Aluminum transfers heat and cold, wood don't. Because the walls of a TC are thing to begine with, any between the wall insulation is minimal to begin with so the aluminum further reduced the insulation efficiency.

2. Aluminum breaks (at the welds), wood flexes. In an off road scenario, you are flexing the camper. Aluminum will break, the wood will give. Very important to me.

3. Welding of the joints themselves. One of the TC owners on RVNet has a Lance with a slide and the lower aluminum extrusion broke at the weld joint and he had to tear the entire side apart to get to it and when he did, the joint was cold welded (looked like bird poop). Aluminum welding takes some skill (even with pulsed MIG and cannot be rushed. In typical RV fashion, Lance did the hurry up and get it done job and the weld failed.

Wood framing, on the other hand flexes and gives and joints don't break. What destoys a wood frame is rot and rot comes about because the owner don't maintain the seals. A weather tight wood framed camper will last indefinitely so long as it's maintained.

Having said that, not maintaining an aluminum framed camper will also cause water intrusion, soaked insulation between the outer and inner walls, mold groth and eventual failure of the aluminum frame because, aluminum also corrodes away.

Northstar (Wiilett Company) only builds wood framed campers. They started out with aluminum frames and years back switched to wood and have stayed with wood since. Northstar will tell you that wood flexes and aluminum don't and they build for off road use. Been building them for 30 years now, I suspect they know.

Myself, I prefer wood, you may not, but don't state that Lance only builds aluminum framed campers because that is not correct. They may at the present time be building aluminum frames, but in past years have built wood framed units. I know, I had one.
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Chief 2
post Jan 19 2018, 06:38 AM
Post #14





Group: Members
Posts: 59
Joined: 19-March 17
Member No.: 9,469
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2005 Chevrolet 3500 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijac with Quick Loads
Truck and Camper Setup: 2005 Chevy 3500 4x4 Edge Attitude, 4" exhaust, Airaid Air Intake, Ranchos, Air Bags, Hellwig Big Wig, Cabover struts. Lance 1172 loaded with 200 watt Renogy solar and Zamp controller



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Jan 17 2018, 11:13 AM)
Lance continually flip flops between wood and aluminum and has for years.  I think it depends on the cost of materials more than anything else.

Myself, I prefer wood framing for a couple reasons.
1.  Aluminum transfers heat and cold, wood don't.  Because the walls of a TC are thing to begine with, any between the wall insulation is minimal to begin with so the aluminum further reduced the insulation efficiency.

2.  Aluminum breaks (at the welds), wood flexes.  In an off road scenario, you are flexing the camper.  Aluminum will break, the wood will give.  Very important to me.

3.  Welding of the joints themselves.  One of the TC owners on RVNet has a Lance with a slide and the lower aluminum extrusion broke at the weld joint and he had to tear the entire side apart to get to it and when he did, the joint was cold welded (looked like bird poop).  Aluminum welding takes some skill (even with pulsed MIG and cannot be rushed.  In typical RV fashion, Lance did the hurry up and get it done job and the weld failed.

Wood framing, on the other hand flexes and gives and joints don't break.  What destoys a wood frame is rot and rot comes about because the owner don't maintain the seals.  A weather tight wood framed camper will last indefinitely so long as it's maintained.

Having said that, not maintaining an aluminum framed camper will also cause water intrusion, soaked insulation between the outer and inner walls, mold groth and eventual failure of the aluminum frame because, aluminum also corrodes away.

Northstar (Wiilett Company) only builds wood framed campers.  They started out with aluminum frames and years back switched to wood and have stayed with wood since.  Northstar will tell you that wood flexes and aluminum don't and they build for off road use.  Been building them for 30 years now, I suspect they know.

Myself, I prefer wood, you may not, but don't state that Lance only builds aluminum framed campers because that is not correct.  They may at the present time be building aluminum frames, but in past years have built wood framed units.  I know, I had one.
*



As I originally stated Lance switched over from building with wood framing back in 2005. Since then they have used aluminum.
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SidecarFlip
post Jan 19 2018, 09:05 AM
Post #15





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



...and I stated as fact that aluminum isn't the 'holy grail' of framing either, for the reasons I listed.

Now that REV Industries has acquired Lance, anything is possible, including a move out of California east to Indiana, Ohio or Michigan.

Time will tell.
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