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> TorklLift Fast Guns

RV_Tech
post Aug 21 2017, 08:13 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



I have a question. According to TorkLift literature, their Fast Gun turn buckles are designed to create a downforce of 300 PSI (if I recall correctly) to hold the camper in place. They state this is the amount recommended by the manufacturers.

Has anyone actually seen this recommendation in print from a manufacturer? One thing I found on the road was virtually no one was paying any attention to the rubber washer placement that is supposed to demarcate the correct amount of tension and on my Fast Guns, equal tension does not result in the rubber washer being having the same 1/4" spacing on the turnbuckle.

Just wondering,

Steve
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 23 2017, 08:10 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Aug 21 2017, 08:13 AM)
I have a question. According to TorkLift literature, their Fast Gun turn buckles are designed to create a downforce of 300 PSI (if I recall correctly) to hold the camper in place. They state this is the amount recommended by the manufacturers.

Has anyone actually seen this recommendation in print from a manufacturer? One thing I found on the road was virtually no one was paying any attention to the rubber washer placement that is supposed to demarcate the correct amount of tension and on my Fast Guns, equal tension does not result in the rubber washer being having the same 1/4" spacing on the turnbuckle.

Just wondering,

Steve
*



While I converse with TorkLift ocassionally, in 30 odd years of 'dirtbagging', I've never seen any specification regarding tie down resistance (static applied pressure) published by any TC manufacturer.

I use the HappjJac equivalent of the TL Fastguns. Basically the same exact principle but less expensive.

300 PSI static pull is a 'pie in the sky' increment in my opinion. Don't believe there is a set standard other than due diligence when securing a camper to a truck.
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RV_Tech
post Aug 23 2017, 03:19 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Rather than try to chase down the answer, I have emailed TorkLift and will post their response.

Steve
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RV_Tech
post Aug 23 2017, 06:10 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Here is what TorkLift had to say. I asked them about the pull down pressure, as well as why lighter weight pop-up campers require just as much pressure as solid shell slide-ins. This is the email I got back. It is unedited.

"Hello Steve,

Thank you for your inquiry and support. Every camper manufacture in the industry recommends 300 lbs of pull down pressure."

I have responded by asking for a specific reference verifying that statement as I do not think it exists. We'll see.

Steve
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 23 2017, 09:44 PM
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I was curious too...

I called Brian at Palomino earlier today and asked him, Brian is the HR manager and the parts manager in Colon, Michigan (Palomino). He told me there was no set in stone recommended securing pressure. His comment was just run them tight without any visible deformation of the tie down points on the camper itself.

What I do anyway.

With the HJ's, HJ recommends setting the anchors with about 1/2" of visible pull on the tie down from the relaxed position.

300 pounds pull on an old unit could very well pull the anchor right out of the unit if the wood frame is wonky.
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 23 2017, 09:53 PM
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Aug 23 2017, 03:19 PM)
Rather than try to chase down the answer, I have emailed TorkLift and will post their response.

Steve
*




I'd give you TL's head of engineering's private phone number as I have it but I better not. They might get pizzed.

How I got my TL Revolution steps, I did a prototype install on the Palomino for them and supplied pictures and drawings so I converse with their engineering department. Did good though, got a set in black to match my trim with the optional adjustable risers for a lot less than the $525.00 retail, a lot less....

Nice steps btw. I recommend them. Very sturdy (I had a whale buddy road test them (he weighs 330 pounds) and they passed with flying colors.

The Revolutions self store in the mounting bracket so they stay on the camper all the time. Deployment is about 5 seconds. same with storing them.
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RV_Tech
post Aug 24 2017, 09:45 AM
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



My only goal here is not to shoot down TorkLift. I am just so tired of reading marketing "jibber-jabber" where someone puts out a statement and folks start repeating it. Simply on the face of things it is very difficult to understand how all truck campers would require exactly the same amount of force holding them down. It seems to me the kind of statement TorkLift makes precludes considerations about camper weight, truck suspension, and variations in manufacturing to name only a few.

I spent almost a decade as a columnist, writer, and technical editor in the RV industry so I had a great deal of access to company engineers. The thought I came away with was not how much they knew about the products they sold, but how little.

I fasten down my truck camper in exactly the same way. I tighten it down and check my turnbuckles at fuel stops. Pretty simple task really! smile.gif

Steve
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 24 2017, 11:34 AM
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I think that 300 pound pressure is phooey myself. It depends more on what the unit sits on and your driving habits and terrain driven on than securing pressure.

Both mine load flat down on a Rhino lined bed, no mat, nothing underneath except the roll formed channels under the camper and neither ever moved at all, fore or aft or side to side and I run off road (camp) 90% of the time.

I don't drive fast off road, I'm usually in low range 4 wheel drive anyway. I learned long ago that 'carnage' happens when you get in a hurry off road.

Big advantage we both have is with a P'up is the lower Cg but my Lance with it's higher vertical Cg was never an issue either. I knew it was back there (unlike the Palomino that I tend to forget about) but neither was an issue.

Guess we will see if TL responds.
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SidecarFlip
post Aug 25 2017, 08:23 AM
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Steve... I see you have not received an answer from TL yet (and if you did, you didn't post it).....lol

My gut feeling is...it's phooey.
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RV_Tech
post Aug 25 2017, 11:44 AM
Post #10





Group: Members
Posts: 201
Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Aug 25 2017, 09:23 AM)
Steve...  I see you have not received an answer from TL yet (and if you did, you didn't post it).....lol

My gut feeling is...it's phooey.
*



I got it last night EST, just thought it was so ridiculous I had to do a little more research.

What I got was this "Hello Steve,

Yeah, please give Lance a call and they will help you!"


Huh? I thought this was perhaps the most bizarre response possible because until Lance redid their website, I think about 2014/2015, they had very clearly recommended HappiJac to haul their campers. It is in print for Heavensakes. Why anyone at TorkLift suggested I research further calling a company that recommended a competitor is beyond me.

On the current website, I could not find recommendation for any tie down/turn buckle system in writing, but if you watch the videos, you will see Happijac prominently displayed holding Lance campers on the truck. Did I accidentally email the Twilight Zone?

I'm not going further with this as it is just too nuts! Man, I don't give a rat's patoot what anyone buys, but no matter how cool you think the product is, question off-the-wall claims. There are just too many "alternate facts" floating around for my liking. As to the 300 pounds of downforce claimed by TorkLift, in my opinion someone is shoveling manure! smile.gif

Steve

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SidecarFlip
post Aug 28 2017, 07:31 PM
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



QUOTE(RV_Tech @ Aug 25 2017, 11:44 AM)
I got it last night EST, just thought it was so ridiculous I had to do a little more research.

What I got was this "Hello Steve,

  Yeah, please give Lance a call and they will help you!"


Huh? I thought this was perhaps the most bizarre response possible because until Lance redid their website, I think about 2014/2015, they had very clearly recommended HappiJac to haul their campers. It is in print for Heavensakes. Why anyone at TorkLift suggested I research further calling a company that recommended a competitor is beyond me.

On the current website, I could not find recommendation for any tie down/turn buckle system in writing, but if you watch the videos, you will see Happijac prominently displayed holding Lance campers on the truck.  Did I accidentally email the Twilight Zone?

I'm not going further with this as it is just too nuts! Man, I don't give a rat's patoot what anyone buys, but no matter how cool you think the product is, question off-the-wall claims. There are just too many "alternate facts" floating around for my liking. As to the 300 pounds of downforce claimed by TorkLift, in my opinion someone is shoveling manure! smile.gif

Steve
*



Loaded the Palomino Backpack on my F350 on Thursday in anticipation of going up north for the weekend but before I loaded it, I took a Happyjac front tie down and let it hang free on the front tie down of the camper and chained on 200 pounds of cast iron weight discs (not 300) and the Happyjac was fully extended to the limits of the internal spring (at 200 pounds of weight). Now, Happyjac recommends extending the front (spring loaded internally) tie down 1/2" from the start position, which, in my view is a lot less than the 200 pounds I hung on it, more like 100-150 pounds.

I agree that someone is shoveling poop.

MY SOP is to set my front's at 1/2" extension and the rears, just slightly tight and go down the road a piece (maybe a few miles), stop and check them again and reset if necessary and then continue on to my destination or campground, or whatever. When I run off road, I tend to tun them looser because of flexation when driving on uneven surfaces.

Basically, you got a non-answer to your question from TL.

Maybe I should ask in as much as I'm on a first name basis with their engineering department but then they are aware I use HJ tie downs and not theirs. That isn't a matter of discrimination either. When I bought my first TC in 2002, which was a Lance HS, HJ was the preferred choice for Lance and thusly was installed by the dealer on my truck and has been on it ever since 2002 and have held up fantastically well. Last year I finally broke down and painted the front ears that stick out. I had some rust spots showing.

I've actually been through 2 front sets and one rear set of HJ tie downs. My original front set, the end cap broke off one so I replaced both and my original rear set got so ugly rusty, I replaced them too.

From 2002 to 2017 is a pretty good track record for HJ in my opinion. 7 more years and I'll put 'Historical Vehicle' plates on my 1997 F 350. I'll own it then and it will be rust free than as well.
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