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> Help with first TC purchase

DaveBarnard
post Mar 2 2017, 10:46 PM
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Joined: 28-February 17
Member No.: 9,439
Favorite Truck Camper(s): unknown
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: none yet
Type of Tiedowns used: none yet
Truck and Camper Setup: F250, 6.2L Flexfuel; Northstar 850sc with sub zero package



Howdy!

First, thanks a ton for the great info on this site. It's helped a lot in guiding us towards a TC purchase decision.

Next step, time to buy one!

For a list of reason's that I'll spare you from, we've decided on a Palomino SS-1240 or SS-1251 pop up and plan to buy new. Our local dealer (not CW) has several of both models (all 2017) in stock.

As to the purpose of this thread; I'm at a loss for where to start negotiations. For simplicity, let's just say that both models have a sticker of $14K. I've read that stickers are a bit of a laugh, so where do I start? $8k? $11K? <shrug>. Several threads I've read on this and other forums indicate final price being as little as 60% of sticker(!!!). Is that (more-so) the case with mass produced brands like Palomino?

I'll also be needing sway bars and turn buckles and plan to have those included in the deal regardless, but solar and a backup camera are other potential dealer add-on/pot-sweeteners as I see much off-grid and off-road in our future.

So, where would you start negotiations? Would you aim for the upgrades (e.g., solar/bu camera)? Or, would you go for the lower price? Where would you start negotiations? Any other obvious start up items that you would recommend I negotiate for (e.g. airbags for a camper that will be at least 500lbs below payload)?

Thanks much for your help!

Bonus question: anyone with the Palominos or other Rieco Titan lifts wanna wager a guess on load limits for the roof? I.e. are a roof box plus 2 kayaks gonna be pushing the limit? Sales-dude here gave an answer that could probably get him elected to office.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 3 2017, 10:24 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Now, is the worst time to buy a new (2017) unit because demand is at the highest point as people want a camper for the good weather coming. Best time to buy a new TC is fall or early winter when dealers don't want to floor plan a unit over tax time.

I bought my SS1500 in the fall and did no negotiations whatsoever and was offered right off, 25% less than MSRP. Fine with me.

The SS series come with few options. The only options are ac and solar and the backup cam. The units are all pre-wired for the Furrion backup cam, all that needs to be done is the install of the cam itself (which retails for about 300 bucks. All the SS units are pre-wired solar and pre wired for ac. so it's plug and play.

I don't think any dealer will negotiate on the solar add on (probably around 1200 bucks for a Zamp double panel with controller (external unit because the roof cannot be penetrated to mount the panels), the Dometic ac unit is about 600 bucks. Thats all the options available, everything else is bundled into the unit.

I'm very happy with mine. I did add a second battery this winter, one DC battery is marginal at best. I have no need for ac at all and solar isn't on my bucket list either. A small inverter genny is much cheaper and easier to deal with at least for me.

Roof capacity is 300 pounds (you can call Palomino in Colon, Michigan and ask Brian, he knows. (I asked him). I think 2 kayaks won't be an issue. A roof box will definitely be a big issue. For one, the roof structurally won't support a box and once you exceed 300 pounds gross added weight on the roof, the RT lift system will fail. Put your box in the camper on the stuff in your truck, in the backseat, not on the roof. Finally, the roof is NOT WALKABLE so getting items on and off will be difficult.
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Freespool
post Mar 3 2017, 09:58 PM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 2-June 16
Member No.: 8,975
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



Welcome to the board Dave. Cheez, where do I start? I should first say that I know very little about pop up's. They simply don't work for me, I hate the word limited and that's what I view pop up's as. The one thing I have noticed about truck campers is that there seems to be a better selection of quality built pop up's over the more traditional hard side. I will assume you looked at everything and have decided on Palomino for what ever reason. Be advised, the buying season is now, people are thinking about summer vacations. That being said, the truck camper market is the soft under belly of the RV industry, most dealers will take every opportunity to move a TC since they are a very small percentage of the market. The qualified well informed buyer can prevail at the dealers lot if basic steps are taken. Knowledge and a firm back bone are essential.

Please understand, the dealers are there for a reason, profit is the motivation. Obviously, your goal is directly opposite. Understanding value and knowing the market will help you become an educated buyer. Ask yourself what's the whole sale and what's the deprecation on a year or two old rig. The more you know this type of data, the less the salesman is going to like you. Salesman love suckers, not intelligent informed buyers. Knowing exactly what you what is important. Finding the best price is easy in most cases. When the dealer will let you walk with cash in your hand your getting close.

I would suggest you order the camper the way you want it from the factory. Adding the goodies at the lot and having them installed by minimum wage employees may not serve you well.

The bottom line here is that if your knowledgeable and qualified you can get a deal anytime of the year. Those that are neither are considered "low hanging fruit" buy the sales staff.
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RV_Tech
post Mar 4 2017, 04:06 PM
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Joined: 27-July 12
Member No.: 6,199
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Dave,

Not sure if this will be helpful, but for a time I was a silent partner in a small RV dealership and also had access to wholesale costs so here is what I have to say about negotiating. Some of this will sound pretty obvious, but buying and selling RVs is a supply/demand business just like any other.

First of all, as Sidecar suggested, you are too late in the season to work the best possible deal in most parts of the country, although there is some variation by season. Florida dealers for example have their busiest season while other areas of the country are under snow. In the snow belt, once you hit February most dealers will not deep discount the price with spring just around the corner.

Sidecar also noted a 25% off the MSRP on the rig he bought and that also should be pretty much a given on a high volume item from a large manufacturer. On the other hand, if you are searching for a model from a smaller manufacturer in high demand, you might not do that well and if you are working with a high volume dealer with plenty of what you want, you can likely do better.

You also can negotiate a better price on a model that has been on the lot for longer periods of time or on a model that has an unpopular floor plan or something else that turns people off.

So what price to offer? I would suggest to you, you can offer any price you want as long as you are not insulting or obnoxious. There is no reason to be afraid to offer a lower price and the dealer is not going to sell you anything and lose money (although the profit margin can vary tremendously and at times we actually lost money if you considered how long we carried a unit on the lot before we moved it). If the dealer says no way, offer to "split the difference", but do not offer a 50/50 split. For example, if you are $1,000 dollars apart, offer another $250. Again, you can always go up as you negotiate, but you can not go down!

I don't think anyone has mentioned service so far and if you do not do your own work, you might want to consider it. Some dealerships offer bargain prices, but have no after-the-sales support. If that is important to you, you might want to pay a little more at a dealer who will honor the warranty, etc. I know a lot of the folks here do their own work, so it doesn't mean much, but not everyone is that lucky.

Hope this helps and good luck in the negotiation,

Steve

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DaveBarnard
post Mar 10 2017, 10:09 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 28-February 17
Member No.: 9,439
Favorite Truck Camper(s): unknown
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: none yet
Type of Tiedowns used: none yet
Truck and Camper Setup: F250, 6.2L Flexfuel; Northstar 850sc with sub zero package



Thanks everyone for their input.

We ended up shifting up in terms of quality. Bought a Northstar 850sc. Ended up paying about 80% of sticker including mounting equipment. Pretty excited to get 'er out next weekend!
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Freespool
post Mar 11 2017, 08:18 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 167
Joined: 2-June 16
Member No.: 8,975
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Still deciding
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2016 GMC3500dualyy4x4diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: The plan will utilize a 3500 GMC with a 11 or 12' TC with a full compliment of Torklift hitch components and tie downs. Stable loads if needed will be installed.



From what I have read and seen I believe there is little doubt that the Northstar is far superior. I think the benefits will out weigh the higher cost and when you get ready to sell you will again appreciate going with the better built product. So now, lets see it.

I looked at several pop up manufacturers while the above dialog was going on. My needs still require a larger hard wall design, however the advantage of owning a 950sc and storing it in my garage would be huge. Maybe Rex will consider a super size 1150 in the future. Building it 92" wide, adding more wardrobe cabinets, increasing the tank sizes and figuring out how to provide a proper shower would add a model to his line that would surely convert plenty of hard wall owners. Northstar would be the only one to have such a large pop up. The ability to store the unit in a standard garage would be the only marketing tool needed.
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SidecarFlip
post Mar 11 2017, 11:16 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Not sure about any unit being 'far superior' to another unit, they all have issues and they all share the same components. Every builder uses, Atwood, Suburban, Rieco-Titan, Dometic, Norcold, Lippert, Thetford and a few others. Comes down to assembly quality more than anything else and how much an owner is willing to do in the way of maintenance, preventive and otherwise.

If Northstar was head above everyone els, there would be no competition, That isn't the case.
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