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> Payload vs CWR vs Payload

ylind
post Jul 4 2014, 10:22 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Looking for a camper
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2015 Chevy 3500 SRW
Type of Tiedowns used: HappiJac
Truck and Camper Setup: 2015 Chevy 3500 SRW, no camper yet



I have a new 2015 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab long bed diesel and had 5000lbs airbags installed. I'm now searching for a camper. I bought this truck for the approx. 4,200lbs payload capacity stated in the Chevy brochure. If I subtract the curb weight from GVWR I get about 3,900lbs payload capacity. Either number is fine with me. When I got the truck home, however, I found a sticker in the glove box stating that the maximum camper weight ("cargo weight rating") for the truck is about 2,900lbs! That's a lot less than the payload number. (The sales guy sure did not mention that!)

2,900lbs is not much capacity at all. In fact, per the weight ratings on the Lance web site, they do not make a single long bed camper that I can put on my new one ton truck. Even the 8 foot models would be too heavy once they are loaded up. Of course, the camper sales guy says to ignore all this and go with a really heavy 11 foot camper. He says he sells this combination all the time.

What's going on? Is the entire cabover camper industry building products that violate truck ratings? Is Chevy being screwy with a max camper weight that is dramatically under payload capacity? Is nearly every truck camper on the road today dramatically overloaded?

I sure did not spend the money on a new one-ton truck to put a lightweight pop-up camper on it. If anyone has any insight into this I would really appreciate it.
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aqualung
post Jul 11 2014, 12:43 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Adventurer 90FWS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Dodge 3500 Dually Quadcab 4x4 6.7L Cummins
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2008 Adventurer 90FWS Torklift Tiedowns with SuperHitch and SuperTruss Firestone Air Bags Torklift Load Stabilizers Fastgun Turnbuckles



I have never heard a decent answer to your question. I have read other posts where people contacted their truck manufacturer (ford, dodge, GM etc) and they would not answer their questions about this cargo weight rating. So it remains a mystery.

My Ram 3500 is similar, the paper in the glove box states 3300lbs but GVWR minus gross weight including fuel and passengers is 4000lbs. So I read that as my fully loaded camper can weigh up to 4000lbs. Perhaps the paper is talking about camper dry weight or is excluding typical loading of the truck (i.e. passengers, fuel, tongue weight of a trailer etc). What you do need to make sure is that when fully loaded you do not exceed the truck's GVWR, its front GAWR or its rear GAWR. Beyond that, the paper/sticker in the glove box seems almost meaningless, at least its certainly vague.
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dubob
post Jul 12 2014, 10:34 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): 2011 Lance 992
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2010 Chevy 2500HD, Ext Cab, 6.0L
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijac w/ Qwik-Loads
Truck and Camper Setup: TC pulled behind the truck on a gooseneck trailer



QUOTE(ylind @ Jul 4 2014, 09:22 PM)
What's going on?  That's anybodys guess.
Is the entire cabover camper industry building products that violate truck ratings?  Yes.
Is Chevy being screwy with a max camper weight that is dramatically under payload capacity?  Yes.
Is nearly every truck camper on the road today dramatically overloaded?  Definite yes.
I'll go out on a limb here and guess that these were NOT the answers you were looking for; right? biggrin.gif

If you could somehow gather up the weight of every TC rig rolling along our highways you would find that the vast majority are OVER at least one weight parameter of the truck carrying the load. These types of questions have been asked for as long as TC have been around. Even the experts that write for the RV Industry news media cannot get a straight answer to these questions when talking to the truck manufacturers. So the only answer your going to get is this: DO NOT EXCEED THE WEIGHT PARAMETERS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR VEHICLE AND ASSIGNED TO IT BY THE MANUFACTURER.

Nothing you can add to the vehicle will change those ratings - NOTHING. It is what it is and it will remain so forever. So what can you do? Well, I ignore it. I've done some research on individual components in my truck and the ONLY component that doesn't measure up to the weight load my TC adds to the truck is the brake system; its only rated at 12,000 pounds. My unit with the TC on board weighs in at 13,200 pounds. The axle, springs, wheels, and tires will all support this weight with room to spare. So why is the GVWR only 11,400?

I adjust my driving to allow LOTS of stopping distance in front of me to compensate for the brake rating. I could also increase the pad/rotor size to do the same thing, but driving slower and allowing longer distances in front is free.

I would ignore that camper weight suggestion sticker in the glove box if it were my truck. And bear in mind that whatever camper you end up buying will have a sticker/plate attached at the factory that tells you either the dry weight or wet weight as it left the factory. This will NOT include any options added by the dealer. Now, add 1,000 pounds to that weight and you will be fairly close to the ACTUAL weight you will be hauling around in the bed of your truck. And you will absolutely have to load the TC and go to your nearest CAT Scale (found at all major truck stops) and get a weight on both axles as well as the total unit weight.

And just in case you missed this, the combined total of both axle ratings is more than likely larger than the GVWR of your truck. That's another mystery to which NOBODY can give you a logical answer.

I can't say what you'll do, but as for me; I'm enjoying my over factory weight rating unit to the max. Life is good.


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Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 75 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
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Focus022
post Jul 22 2014, 08:18 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Camplite
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 97 Dodge ext cab 4x4 2500 cummins.
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: Dodge 2500 4x4 with cummins W/2014 camplite TC 8.6



QUOTE(aqualung @ Jul 11 2014, 12:43 PM)
I have never heard a decent answer to your question. I have read other posts where people contacted their truck manufacturer (ford, dodge, GM etc) and they would not answer their questions about this cargo weight rating. So it remains a mystery.

My Ram 3500 is similar, the paper in the glove box states 3300lbs but GVWR minus gross weight including fuel and passengers is 4000lbs. So I read that as my fully loaded camper can weigh up to 4000lbs. Perhaps the paper is talking about camper dry weight or is excluding typical loading of the truck (i.e. passengers, fuel, tongue weight of a trailer etc). What you do need to make sure is that when fully loaded you do not exceed the truck's GVWR, its front GAWR or its rear GAWR. Beyond that, the paper/sticker in the glove box seems almost meaningless, at least its certainly vague.
*




It's true, I was disappointed also when I got on the cat scale and saw my 2500 ram cummins was over the GVW but not over the GAWR. I had purchased a camp lite aluminum 8.6. You might want to look at camplite. The heaviest one they offer dry weight is 3180 lbs. that's for 8' bed with a slide.

http://www.livinlite.com/11_TC-overview.php
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Bob B
post Aug 1 2014, 11:51 PM
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Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2007 Lance 1181, Chevy 3500 Dually 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift with Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: Lance 1181, Torklift tie downs, torklift stable loads



QUOTE(ylind @ Jul 4 2014, 10:22 PM)
I have a new 2015 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab long bed diesel and had 5000lbs airbags installed.???????  I'm now searching for a camper.???????  I bought this truck for the approx. 4,200lbs payload capacity stated in the Chevy brochure.???????  If I subtract the curb weight from GVWR I get about 3,900lbs payload capacity.???????  Either number is fine with me.???????  When I got the truck home, however, I found a sticker in the glove box stating that the maximum camper weight ("cargo weight rating") for the truck is about 2,900lbs!???????  That's a lot less than the payload number.???????  (The sales guy sure did not mention that!)

2,900lbs is not much capacity at all.???????  In fact, per the weight ratings on the Lance web site, they do not make a single long bed camper that I can put on my new one ton truck. Even the 8 foot models would be too heavy once they are loaded up.???????  Of course, the camper sales guy says to ignore all this and go with a really heavy 11 foot camper.???????  He says he sells this combination all the time.

What's going on????????  Is the entire cabover camper industry building products that violate truck ratings????????  Is Chevy being screwy with a max camper weight that is dramatically under payload capacity????????  Is nearly every truck camper on the road today dramatically overloaded?

I sure did not spend the money on a new one-ton truck to put a lightweight pop-up camper on it.???????  If anyone has any insight into this I would really appreciate it.
*



This is why I made a sacrifice when I bought my 2013 C3500 and went with a REGULAR CAB truck. I wanted the diesel....which adds more weight and decreases capacity...... It is only the wife and I, and I figured I can get a bigger camper with more storage space.

At the time I was buying, I thought what mattered was the payload capacity....and this truck has some unbelievably high Payload.....I have since learned about the Cargo Weight capacity which is WAY less....but is still 5076 lbs for this truck.

I am looking to get a new...er camper one of these days, but haven't decided what to go with yet.....but I do have a little more cargo capacity to work with.

I've got more to learn yet myself about the various ratings the axles, etc

I am retiring soon, and am starting to do some serious study.....want to do a trip to Alaska, and have to decide to keep the old Lance I have or get something new..er.

Just went and looked up the specs on the 2015.....They don't show the cargo capacity in the specs, but the payload for the regular cab diesel 4wd is listed at 5817.....the gasser is 6952, because the engine weighs a lot less.....The 2WD gasser is 7374.
I wanted the Allison transmission, so I went with the diesel with the regular cab. Save some serious coin also....I got a new regular cab for the same as I would have had to pay for a two year old extra cab with 75000 miles.
Wish they would show the cargo rating in the web site capacities.
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caddis
post Sep 7 2014, 11:10 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Northern Lite
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2014 Ram 3500 CTD CC SRW
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift + Fastguns
Truck and Camper Setup: Ram 3500 CTD SRW with Firestone Ride Rite Air Bags and Torklift Stableloads carrying a Northern Lite 10.2CD SE



My 2014 Ram 3500 has a stated cargo capacity of around 4300 lbs and the camper sheet in the glovebox says no camper over 3400 lbs. This is crew cab with seating for six and, if I understand things correctly, the industry standard is to figure 150 lbs per seat -- so, in my case, 900 lbs of people. Take the 4300 the truck can carry and subtract the 900 in people and you get the 3400 for the camper (loaded)...easy peasy!
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fatboy
post Sep 13 2014, 10:45 PM
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Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2008 F250 6.4L Crew 2x2 SRW
Type of Tiedowns used: None
Truck and Camper Setup: Nothing



You buy a truck with options. Not everyone buys the same options. So, no marketing glossy is going to be able to tell you how heavy your particular truck weighs and it follows that it therefore won't be able to tell you the payload. Why? Because payload is a calculated number.

You take the gross vehicle weight rating and subtract the actual weight of the vehicle and the answer is the payload. How are you going to get this from some brochure that knows nothing about your particular truck?

So ... manufacturers weigh trucks and place ratings on a sticker in trucks. On my Ford, its located on the driver side pillar. My F250 diesel, crew, 8' bed, lariat, etc etc has a payload of 2300 lbs and this information is found on the sticker.

So, you don't like the number ... payload isn't sufficient ... and so you toss the tailgate, backseat, tow hitch and want to know your effective payload. Just run to the nearest CAT scales and weigh your truck and subtract this number from its GVWR and you got it.

BTW ... I would expect a Ford 1ton, similar to my truck, to have a payload around 3000 lbs. So, your 2900 lbs isn't far off what I'd expect. I've seen payloads run between 2700 and 3300 for SRW 1 ton pickups. The gassers have the higher payloads naturally because the gas power train is lighter than the diesel power train.

I personally don't worry much about max camper weight or being camper certified. I am only interested in the axle and gross vehicle ratings and the capabilities of the truck in terms of tires, suspension, sway control, etc.

Thought I'd add my 2 cents.
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terih
post Oct 29 2014, 11:10 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Just put down payment on a Lance 855
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: no truck yet
Type of Tiedowns used: not sure
Truck and Camper Setup: nothing yet



I've found the same issue while shopping for a Silverado 3500. I got this truck camper loading information from a Chevy dealer yesterday.

I looked up the Consumer Information Regulation and I'm no longer concerned about the number on the glove box sticker. I'll just make sure my equipment (tires, brakes, etc.) can handle the load and not surpass the GVWR or GAWR.
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dannyohara@live.com
post Apr 22 2017, 02:06 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Off Road
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2014 Silverado 1500 crew 6.5
Type of Tiedowns used: none
Truck and Camper Setup: looking to get into truck camping with my half ton. looking at off road campers pop ups



QUOTE(ylind @ Jul 4 2014, 10:22 PM)
I have a new 2015 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab long bed diesel and had 5000lbs airbags installed. I'm now searching for a camper. I bought this truck for the approx. 4,200lbs payload capacity stated in the Chevy brochure. If I subtract the curb weight from GVWR I get about 3,900lbs payload capacity. Either number is fine with me. When I got the truck home, however, I found a sticker in the glove box stating that the maximum camper weight ("cargo weight rating") for the truck is about 2,900lbs! That's a lot less than the payload number. (The sales guy sure did not mention that!)

2,900lbs is not much capacity at all. In fact, per the weight ratings on the Lance web site, they do not make a single long bed camper that I can put on my new one ton truck. Even the 8 foot models would be too heavy once they are loaded up. Of course, the camper sales guy says to ignore all this and go with a really heavy 11 foot camper. He says he sells this combination all the time.

What's going on? Is the entire cabover camper industry building products that violate truck ratings? Is Chevy being screwy with a max camper weight that is dramatically under payload capacity? Is nearly every truck camper on the road today dramatically overloaded?

I sure did not spend the money on a new one-ton truck to put a lightweight pop-up camper on it. If anyone has any insight into this I would really appreciate it.
*


Hey I.m a gm tech and have always wondered about this as well... The farthest I'v gotten is that engineering did some fancy calculations to figure whats going to put you over your rear axle gvwr. When people hear the term "pay load" they assume what you can put in the box but actually its what the vehicle can have over both axles in other words box abd cab before it's over it's gross vehicle weight. Bot D.O.T. doesnt measure only the whole vehicle. They will measure your axle gvrw"s as well. This is just and assumption but I'm assuming GM engineers did some calculating to figure a slip in camper over their camp weight will put you over your rear axle gvrw
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 22 2017, 08:38 AM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Interesting. I've asked my BIL the same question, he's a product design engineer at Ford SVO Dearborn and I've never gotten an answer from him.

However, there are TC's that don't weigh a ton, I have one. My Palomino's advertised weight it 1900 and loaded, water, batteries, food, and junk it weighs 2300, well within the GVWR of my 350 Ford 4x4 Long Bed diesel.

I think the issue concerns stopping ability and component life as much as weight carrying capacity. Components are sized respective to the vehicle capability.

Over the years, TC's have gotten heavier, not lighter, contrary to the industry buzzwords like 'Lite' and 'Lightweight', they have went the other way while trucks are being built lighter to be more fuel efficient.

Good example is tailgates. My 350 ford tailgate weighs 65 pounds. My friend has a Silverado diesel 3/4 ton and his tailgate weighs 35 pounds.

My tailgate will support my ramps driving a quad in the bed. His bent in the middle with the same exact scenario....lol

It's all about components and that isn't meant to be construed as a Ford-Chevy bash comment. Just an observation.

My opinion is the Rv industry needs to go on a weight diet.
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