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> Looking for advice, Thinking of buying need advice.....

emcvay
post Apr 5 2017, 08:50 AM
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From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



Hi All,

First off, thanks for running and maintaining the site! I know how tough that can be (I have a dart forum myself) and appreciate that you've done this as I was looking for a place where I could get some advice and found your site smile.gif

OK, here's the details: I run a portable sawmill business (side business mostly in the spring, summer and fall) and am tired of driving back and forth to my cabin or to a hotel when on a remote job. I've decided I need to get a slide in camper so I can camp out onsite, enjoy the evenings (instead of driving) and save money on fuel not to mention time. I can drive as much as 70 miles each way on a job over a week....so even getting something like 8MPG with a camper and mill in tow would be better than getting 15mpg and driving 140 miles a day....

So after trading in my F150 for a long box F350 crew cab (2010 in great shape with only 32k miles) I went in search of a lighter 8 or 9 foot camper......

user posted image
Found this 1995 Angler on CL for $1k....owner said it had some 'condensation damage'.....

user posted image
This is the damaged spot. I can put my hand through it without trying.

user posted image
You can clearly see the damage here.

One other spot had some minor (what I'd think of as minor in comparison to this major damage) water damage.

Owner said she sealed the roof every year and I looked at the roof and it appeared to be sealed without cracks etc....my guess is a leaking window above the seat.

I wonder if it can be repaired by cutting out the bad spot and fixing in new plywood? Is it even worth it?

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Chief 2
post Apr 6 2017, 05:53 AM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 19-March 17
Member No.: 9,469
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Lance
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 2005 Chevrolet 3500 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijac with Quick Loads
Truck and Camper Setup: 2005 Chevy 3500 4x4 Edge Attitude, 4" exhaust, Airaid Air Intake, Ranchos, Air Bags, Hellwig Big Wig, Cabover struts. Lance 1172 loaded with 200 watt Renogy solar and Zamp controller



QUOTE(emcvay @ Apr 5 2017, 08:50 AM)
Hi All,

First off, thanks for running and maintaining the site!  I know how tough that can be (I have a dart forum myself) and appreciate that you've done this as I was looking for a place where I could get some advice and found your site smile.gif

OK, here's the details:  I run a portable sawmill business (side business mostly in the spring, summer and fall) and am tired of driving back and forth to my cabin or to a hotel when on a remote job.  I've decided I need to get a slide in camper so I can camp out onsite, enjoy the evenings (instead of driving) and save money on fuel not to mention time.  I can drive as much as 70 miles each way on a job over a week....so even getting something like 8MPG with a camper and mill in tow would be better than getting 15mpg and driving 140 miles a day....

So after trading in my F150 for a long box F350 crew cab (2010 in great shape with only 32k miles) I went in search of a lighter 8 or 9 foot camper......


user posted image
Found this 1995 Angler on CL for $1k....owner said it had some 'condensation damage'.....

user posted image
This is the damaged spot.  I can put my hand through it without trying.

user posted image
You can clearly see the damage here.

One other spot had some minor (what I'd think of as minor in comparison to this major damage) water damage.

Owner said she sealed the roof every year and I looked at the roof and it appeared to be sealed without cracks etc....my guess is a leaking window above the seat.

I wonder if it can be repaired by cutting out the bad spot and fixing in new plywood?  Is it even worth it?
*



Well, you don't have a lot of $$ tied up in it at this point so I would try to fix it the best way possible. I would be concerned with what you may find behind the wall when you open it up. Most campers are wood framed so I hope you don't have any additional damage. Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 6 2017, 08:36 AM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I think I'd leave it alone and call it good. It was inexpensive to buy so if it continues to degrade you aren't out a bundle.

Most wood framed units that start to rot like that are really rot pots underneath and fixing them is usually a nightmare.

If everything works, I'd call it good and save up for a newer one, preferrably a Filon skinned unit.
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emcvay
post Apr 6 2017, 10:08 AM
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Joined: 5-April 17
From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



QUOTE(SidecarFlip @ Apr 6 2017, 06:36 AM)
I think I'd leave it alone and call it good.  It was inexpensive to buy so if it continues to degrade you aren't out a bundle.

Most wood framed units that start to rot like that are really rot pots underneath and fixing them is usually a nightmare.

If everything works, I'd call it good and save up for a newer one, preferrably a Filon skinned unit.
*



My initial thought was to liquid nails and screw down some 3/8" ply on top and bottom of the damage, take off the panel that is stained and screw ini some HD panel, seal it up and move on....

Thoughts?
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 6 2017, 01:11 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



You might be screwing into air, depending on how bad it's rotted underneath. I've use 'Git Rot' with pretty good success for building up rotted wood sections. It's not cheap and can be purchases at any Marine store.

Just be apprised, when you start pulling and patching, it may turn into something huge. Rot is progressive, not regressive.

I can tell the camper is older. RV builders quit using plastic welting to fill out of spec voids a long time ago. They use silicone caulk now.

If it was me, I'd use it and not get too excited. if you can stem the water coming in and let the rest be.
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RV_Tech
post Apr 6 2017, 02:01 PM
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



Couple of thoughts. First, how long are you willing to keep this camper and how much are you willing to put into it? Then how handy are you?

Damage like this is completely repairable and I have redone entire walls so you can never tell it was damaged. If you want to do a complete repair, you need to start by opening up the wall so you know how much the wall joists are still intact. Once you know that, you can make a judgement as to how to proceed. I am doubtful this damage is from a simple window leak, but maybe.

What you will discover when you open the wall is that is not much holding these things together. Sometimes you are lucky and you can nail down the leak and scab on a new partial wall joist. Then search to find matching wall board and you can do the entire wall or patch it.

That Angler has a rubber roof and I can tell you Fleetwood did a crap job on their rubber roofs in that they normally carried the rubber over just enough to get it behind the aluminum trim that goes over the rubber. Folks are great at rollering crap all over rubber roofs but never resealing the edging (as in unscrew, remove, new tacky tape, and new stainless screws). The screws rust, water gets in, and runs down inside the walls. Leaks are almost always on the trim perimeters, not on the roof proper. Or more simply put, most folks expend energy doing what doesn't need to be done and ignoring the stuff that causes the problem.

Steve
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emcvay
post Apr 7 2017, 04:32 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 66
Joined: 5-April 17
From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



Thanks all,

Wouldn't you know it! It's raining to beat all hell and I just brought the camper home.....and I live in a desert (Central WA so a little more rain than the Mojave but not much. We get about 8" a year here....except THIS YEAR!

A little about me: I run a small portable sawmill business on the side and work for the phone company full time (manager). I've been building a cabin in the woods for several years (it's what got me into portable saw milling) and used to do construction (a lifetime ago)....so I can tackle that kind of work -- if I want to wink.gif

My hope with this camper, frankly, was to seal it up and patch it well enough to hold for the summer and then sell it. I'd like a newer one with AC and the various things that come with newer campers (this one is pretty plane Jane, heck my Evolution tent trailer might have had more features wink.gif )

I wanted something to test out on the truck and at the job sites as a place to stay and to decide what I really wanted in a camper for that day I go out and spend some money on one and this one seemed like a good way to do that.

I brought the camper home last night and so far I can see the tie downs on the right side, where the damage is, are a bit weak. Seems to hold ok though but clearly the wood is soft there and needs some help. My gut reaction is as above (to screw in some wood) as, for example, the picture damage above is very limited and I've got solid wood to the north and south of the damage about 6" away (so a total of about 12" of 'soft' wood). Feels like it was a low spot in the plywood where water pooled.

I've decided to put a battery in it, fill the propane, add water (and flush and add again me thinks) get longer chains for the turn buckles since they were too short to reach the right holes in the tie downs (Torklift that I just had put on my truck) put some plywood on the seat, sealer around the windows etc and then head off to my next milling job this weekend and see how she does.

Figured getting my feet wet (hopefully not) was the way to start LOL and get familiar with this old box.
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 7 2017, 10:13 AM
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Weak tie down points are a sure sign of internal rot. What I would do is remove the stock tie down's entirely and run a length of appropriate width angle iron (structural angle) the entire length of the camper and drill holes at the appropriate tie down points, screwing the angle into the lower side of the camper all along the lower edge. That will distribute the pull of the tie down's the entire length and hopefully some of the wood is sound along the bottom edge.

You stand a real good chance of bulling the tiedown out and causing collateral damage.

Don't forget to paint the angle iron, it rusts. Sounds to me like a lot of internal (no see em) rot.

That is a very intimidating job fixing it. I'd see how the camper works for you before tackling it and / or selling it and buying another.. Now that you know what to look for.

If I was buying any used unit, I'd be doing a very through inspection (as you have learned).

Most any unit that is stored outside in the weather will have issues somewhere. I keep mine inside unless I'm using it, always, but that isn't practical for most people.

Never been a fan of TorqLift tie down's or Fast guns. Way too expensive for the intended use. Go read my thread here or on the Open Roads forum. Interesting comments about securing a camper to a truck and a lot of myths explored.
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emcvay
post Apr 8 2017, 08:10 AM
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Group: Members
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Joined: 5-April 17
From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



So the bad:

1. Both tie downs on the right side (passenger) are bad/weak. One the local RV shop moved inward to a secure location that they said would work (it seems to), the second pulled down as soon as I left the RV shop so I pulled back in and they said "yup, that's bad".....and proceeded to advise that I tie down off the jack support and claimed that it was 'legal'.

I will need to do some serious rehab on that side of the camper while the other side is good.

2. Fridge, stove, water pump, toilet and lights all work. No idea of the heater works or how to start this one (it's different than my tent trailer heater but i have to assume it's not too similar.

I took the camper to my next job (which I was desperate to get to) 112 miles away, parked it, got in and crashed for the night.

If I can get the heater working and fix that bad wall this wouldn't be a half bad way to travel to jobs smile.gif
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 8 2017, 09:07 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



I explained to you how to stop gap remedy the tie down (and jack) situation in a previous post using a length of angle iron. Moving the tie down points to find a sold wood area is counter productive. It only streeses what's left that's good and nothing else.

I'd run angle iron down both sides under the side along the bottom just to be sure.

Get on the net and goggle up your heater, in fact all the appliances. You'll find not only manuals but how to instructions for using them. It's all there, right on your computer.

BTW, how much was the camper?
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RV_Tech
post Apr 8 2017, 12:04 PM
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Group: Members
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



All RV furnaces are about the same in terms of how they work. If you understand one, you pretty much understand them all. Doesn't that Angler just have the standard snap action thermostat on the wall? After that it needs 12-volts DC and propane. If nothing at all happens, check the fuse first in the distribution panel.

Steve
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emcvay
post Apr 10 2017, 11:09 AM
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Joined: 5-April 17
From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



QUOTE(emcvay @ Apr 8 2017, 06:10 AM)
So the bad:

1.  Both tie downs on the right side (passenger) are bad/weak.  One the local RV shop moved inward to a secure location that they said would work (it seems to), the second pulled down as soon as I left the RV shop so I pulled back in and they said "yup, that's bad".....and proceeded to advise that I tie down off the jack support and claimed that it was 'legal'.

I will need to do some serious rehab on that side of the camper while the other side is good.

2.  Fridge, stove, water pump, toilet and lights all work.  No idea of the heater works or how to start this one (it's different than my tent trailer heater but i have to assume it's not too similar.

I took the camper to my next job (which I was desperate to get to) 112 miles away, parked it, got in and crashed for the night.

If I can get the heater working and fix that bad wall this wouldn't be a half bad way to travel to jobs smile.gif
*



Yup saw that. Didn't have time as I was hitting the road to mill out of town so we made do for the time being. I plan to put the angle iron in though think I'll need 3" at least and am not certain I have ANY good wood between the tie downs. In which case I'm not sure I want to do much with it though maybe run the angle to the jack points and weld it to them since they are solid...at least then the edge would be solid and with some added plywood perhaps just enough.

It held well though on the 230 miles (half up half back) to my job this weekend.

Everything but the heater seems to work and perhaps the wiring to the battery from the trailer outlet may be faulty as the battery didn't charge off the truck so have to check that out.

$700 was the final price -- would Eternabond be a good choice for the roof on this thing? I was thinking putting it on the edges would be good and assume I just need to scrape the old flaking stuff off and stick Eternabond down?
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emcvay
post Apr 10 2017, 11:09 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 66
Joined: 5-April 17
From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



user posted image
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 10 2017, 11:27 AM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



You have to remove all the old before applying new.
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emcvay
post Apr 11 2017, 07:11 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 66
Joined: 5-April 17
From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



Meanwhile I'm trying to figure out if the hot water is even hooked up. Owner said they disconnected and I see an inlet or outlet that is open and what looks like the overpressure valve.....anyone have a good source for this 1995 Angler hotwater heater? I'd like to try to figure it out while also figuring out the heater....

So far my down and dirty sealing seems to have worked. I'm seriously considering pulling the siding up from the damaged section and seeing how tough it would be to replace the studs. I've seen a few vids of others doing and sites etc and it appears some scabbing of 2x2 studs can be done and some additional beefing up.

Don't really want to spend much time on it but don't like the way it ties down right now and am thinking with some new studs/framing and some angle iron run to the jacks it might just work like a charm...

Also looking at getting some eternabond for the roof edges. Figure I can scrape/wire brush off the flaky crap and bond that stuff over the edges to seal them better.

I'd like the camper to survive until next spring and be worth at least a grand at that point...I can then sell it and buy a nicer/newer NON LEAKING camper wink.gif
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 12 2017, 03:03 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 472
Joined: 15-October 16
Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



That will be a trick in as much as used and leaking somewhere go hand in hand.

What I'd do with the HWH is get the make, either an Atwood or Surburban and the model number off the heater and look it up. All the owners manuals are on line and all the Q&Q stuff is as well.
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emcvay
post Apr 12 2017, 03:16 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 66
Joined: 5-April 17
From: Washington
Member No.: 9,497
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Arctic Fox
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: Ford F350 Crew cab long box 6.4l 4x4
Type of Tiedowns used: Torklift
Truck and Camper Setup: 2010 F350 PS CC LB SRW with AF990



Found the owners manuals (she had them still).....think it looks like the water flows in the back and the stuff I see in front are drains or overflows. Will have to check to see if propane makes it to the pilot light and then see if it will light etc...should have water flow through it regardless unless they somehow plugged it off.

Might have to be buy new wink.gif Don't want leaks!

I've been using a 'can apply when wet' sealer I found at HD...seems to be working to keep things dry so maybe, just maybe, I've got the main leaks all plugged. Don't see any wet wood now so crossing fingers.

Then if I get the hot water and heater working I can look at putting some wood in where it's weak (ply) and will contemplate opening up the side in the future to put some studs in....or may just flog it after this summer
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RV_Tech
post Apr 12 2017, 06:37 PM
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Group: Members
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Favorite Truck Camper(s): Hallmark, Northstar, Outfitter
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: F-350 SRW 6.2 Supercab
Type of Tiedowns used: Happijack front, Torklift rear
Truck and Camper Setup: Hallmark Ute XL No modes to truck Torklift Fast Guns Fast guns had to be cut down to absolute minimum (14 1/2") to use with Happijac front tie down and Hallmark camper.



A heat gun or hair dryer helps to soften old caulking. Eternabond needs a clean surface.

Can you tell me a little more about what you mean when you say the water heater was disconnected ie. does it fill with water? Drop the door and shoot a clear pic of the water heater and I may be able to walk you through the repair. I expect you have a propane only Suburban with a pilot light rather than a direct spark ignition (push button light from inside your camper).

Steve
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 12 2017, 08:27 PM
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



If it's a Suburban it will have a sacrifical anode rod at the bottom of the tank and the valve at the top is the T&P valve, that relieves the pressure should it overheat. The anode rod needs yearly replacement you can get one on Amazon. Get a genuine Suburban anode rod, not an aftermarket one. The aftermarket ones are aluminum. The Suburban anode is magnesium. Much better.

If the heater is an Atwood, it has no rod but will have a T&P valve just like your water heater at home has. RVT is probably right, it's a standing pilot model not a DSI (Direct spark ignition) heater. You have to light it when you want hot water.

It should have lines going into it on the inside, one marked hot and one marked cold and probably a line connecting the 2. Thats the bypass line for winterizing. You want shut that and open the other 2, fill your FW tank and let the water pump fill the hot water heater. What I do is open the T&P valve at the top and fill the heater until water comes out the valve and close it. That allows the heater to be filled but still leaves a little air space at the top for expansion (remember hot water expands).

If it's a standing pilot, you need to be sure the pilot orfice is clean and free of spider webs and the burner is clean and free of bug stuff as well. RVT knows more about the gas valves but if the pilot will light and stay lit, it should heat the water.

Nothing beats hot water in a camper other than a good mattress...lol
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SidecarFlip
post Apr 12 2017, 08:30 PM
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Group: Members
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Member No.: 9,221
Favorite Truck Camper(s): Forest River Palomino SS
Type and Brand of Truck(s) Owned: 1997 Ford F350 4x4 LB SRW CC 7.3 diesel
Type of Tiedowns used: HappyJac standard
Truck and Camper Setup: 1997 Ford F350 4 door 4x4 Crew Cab 7.3 Diesel, Lance 915 loaded, 2015 Palomino SS1500 Loaded



Nice mill btw. I cut a lot of trees on my property and give all the wood away.
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